Double Bass Info on Selmer Manhattan DB

Oct 21, 2010
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Hi folks,

I'm an electric bass player for many years, finally having invested in a double bass AND lessons. The bass I bought is a "Manhattan, sponsored by Selmer", and I'd like to know more about it, but the web is not bending to my will. Maybe someone here can help. I'm looking for the approximate build date and some history on the company that made it maybe.

Model: 4506
Serial: 5988

Some pics

Any leads or direct info would be appreciated.

Here's the label
8767BLj4TGxX_jCYX4MDI86pGt9hxO6NfmGf2GIxA1C3O3i19YuV2wPyU_V6fa3nrSKwiJ_WLB9V2utiYg=w1366-h769-no.jpg
 
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Update:

Based on this website, it had to be made 1927 or later, since that's when the name "H. & A. Selmer" started and when that company started doing business in Elkhart, Indiana.


Another update:
Based on this TB thread, it's a Kay made for the Selmer label. But I checked the Kay serials numbers and it doesn't match them. So back to my original question - can it be determined when it was made, ish?
 
Damn, a clean prewar Kay with a slightly different label. If it was stamped Kay and was never refinished, that's a 3k+ bass retail. Hell, maybe you could get a Djangoholic to pay even more just because it says Selmer....

Just so you know when you get deep in the sickness and want a carved bass.;)
 
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Can't see from the photos...does this bass have a two- or three-piece neck by any chance? I once looked at a Selmer/Kay that had a three-piece neck (two longitudinal pieces plus scroll).

Here's the thread I posted on it a few years ago. At the time, I was convinced the bass was carved, but I don't think Kay ever did carved basses.

Don't know what became of that bass...I did not end up buying it.
 
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Hey guys, thanks for all the info and feedback. I added pictures to this shared folder, if you want specific close ups or angles I didn't catch, please let me know and I'll add them. Its really cool so much is known about these old basses, because now I know a little more about mine.

As far as value goes, it would be cool if it was worth lots, but I picked it because it was in my price range and sounded the way I wanted it to sound. I passed on a "Kay labeled as a Kay" because it didn't sound as deep/loud/clear, and I passed on a brand new Chinese one because, well, I didn't want a new looking bass. Plus it didn't sound woody enough.
 
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Prewar Kays are seen as the best of the breed, and yours is early based on the Art Deco engravings on the tuning machine plates and the one-piece scroll.

Nice bass. I'd change the tailgut and endpin if it were mine, but it looks really good as it sits.
 
Prewar Kays are seen as the best of the breed, and yours is early based on the Art Deco engravings on the tuning machine plates and the one-piece scroll.

Nice bass. I'd change the tailgut and endpin if it were mine, but it looks really good as it sits.

I'll be honest. I am such a DB noob I had to google image "tailgut" just now. But I'll learn and practice and make myself worthy of this double bass! :thumbsup:
 
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I once owned a Selmer-Kay Slimline, circa 1939. It was blonde with inlaid purfling. The label was missing, but the tuner plates were engraved with "Selmer-Kay Slimline". It had 6" ribs. It was the loudest Kay that I've ever played.
 
I once owned a Selmer-Kay Slimline, circa 1939. It was blonde with inlaid purfling. The label was missing, but the tuner plates were engraved with "Selmer-Kay Slimline". It had 6" ribs. It was the loudest Kay that I've ever played.

Documented S-5 examples are from '37 and '38 only, and we have none with Selmer badging. Did you happen to keep any photos you could share? That would be a new model to us.
 
I never took any photos of it, Steve. I bought it from a guy named Dee Woolum who played it for years a Kntsberry farm in California. It was in rough shape, and I so;d it in '96. Sorry, I don't have any more information.
 
Here's our only pic of what appears to be an original finish on a Manhattan. We don't have a number for it, so can't say for sure when it was built, but it's probably very early given the special Selmer tailpiece logo. It has the standard ebonized maple fingerboard and steel endpin.

Manhattan face.jpg
 
Hey Steven,

I had a Selmer/Mahattan about 10 years ago, and I sent a pic of the label to Roger at the Kay site. I thought the serial numbers were in the same series as the basses labelled as Kays. Based on that, Roger and I thought My Selmer Manhattan was from 1941...
 
I thought the serial numbers were in the same series as the basses labelled as Kays. Based on that, Roger and I thought My Selmer Manhattan was from 1941...

You're correct that all of Kay's in-house and OEM basses were labeled in the same number series, with Kay cellos as well.

Roger spent some years refining his date estimates, which are based on slowly accumulated stories from owners, heirs, former employees and windage. Current estimates have held pretty well for a decade or more, but Roger says that they should still be understood to have a margin of error of four to six months. We're continuing to gather stories (e.g., "Dad got that bass as a present when he graduated from high school in '48"), and every one can be helpful.
 
There is a Manhattan label that lives nearby Asheville. If it was going to the Selmer Museum, that label might make a difference; to anyone else, it is just another factory Kay. There were no specific modifications to the regular factory builds, just a different label. I'd wager that if you removed that label, underneath you would find the regular production serial number underneath. I do feel that old label would make for a cool t shirt! The engraving on the Kluson tuning machines is also not uncommon.

Ask ten Kay nerds and you'll get ten different responses, but... I disagree on the pre war models being better. My perspective is that the postwar 1945-1949 were the best sounding and best constructed of the Kay years, and for whatever reason, the necks seem to break much less often. The early models were a bit lighter that work well for some, but not everyone. By about 1951 they started using poplar for the inside layer of ply and those tend to fall apart due to glue adhesion issues with the poplar, hence all of the loose plys, seams, and bassbars, especially in the 1950s models. The postwar years used maple for the inside plys. That gives them a little more punch and focus and from a repair standpoint, you rarely see the glue adhesion issues to the extent that the others have them, especially the bassbar unzipping issues from the poplar where the bassbar and the outside ply layer are ripped apart from the top as a unit. I hate having to remove the top on a '50s model with the poplar plys. On a maple model, you might get a few small pieces of laminate that will come off, but on a poplar one, you wind up with a shoebox full of puzzle parts.

'Gotta agree with Kungfu- replace that rigid tailwire or start wearing a facemask for the day when- not if- it has a sudden catastrophic failure and flies up in your face; best $15 you'll ever spend.

Regardless, enjoy that bass. Play it every day like it is your last one on the planet and focus on the music remembering that almost every one of our bass heroes has owned and gigged with an old Kay at some point in their career- the gateway bass....

j.
www.kaybassrepair.com
 
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