Hello. Here is my story. I started playing double bass when I was 13. I learned classical music for about 2 years before I switched to electric bass guitar. :scowl: I played bass guitar for about 5 years with a music school and various bands playing everything from metal to reggae to hip hop music. When I made the switch I stop reading music and instead built a great ear, so I learned how to play every thing by ear. After that I put my playing on hiatus dealing with various complicated life issues and what not. At the age of 24 I was going to a local community college for a liberal arts degree. That is when I decided to buy a double bass and regain my knowledge on reading sheet music again. In 3 months time I was able to schedule an audition to become a music performance major. When the audition came around, I played a few scales and played Sonatina in G minor, and ended up passing the audition. I am now 25 and just completed my 1st semester as a music major as a part-time student. Currently I am studying with someone who received their Master's from Juilliard. Until my next semester. My question is, am I too old to learn everything I need to know to get into a well paying orchestra in the future. Is it too late?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
Welcome to TalkBass! Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Is 25 too old to become a professional classical bassist?
- Thread starter bbbcsd87
- Start date
Since no one has replied to your question thus far, I'll bite. I'm a jazzer not a classical player but let me suggest that you make a list of the types of organizations you'd like to work for and then take a look at the pedigrees and experience of the players they've hired. That exercise won't give you a definitive answer because there can always be exceptions to any rule, but would probably help express your odds. If your goal is to work in one of the major symphonies, my guess, and it's only a guess so I could well be wrong, is that they typically hire people in their early to mid 20s who've been playing for more than 10 years and studied with a succession of well-known instructors, each more well-known and respected than the last, and it's the instructors recommendation that gets them the audition.
A friend of mine got a Ph.D. in early Germanic languages. He was very disappointed when after he graduated, he wasn't picked for the one job opening that year. There were over 100 applicants. He went to work in the University library. So effectively, his Ph.D. was worthless to him. My intent is not to discourage you, but to ensure you go in with your eyes fully open. You might find out that there are great organizations that would be happy to hire you at a livable wage.
A friend of mine got a Ph.D. in early Germanic languages. He was very disappointed when after he graduated, he wasn't picked for the one job opening that year. There were over 100 applicants. He went to work in the University library. So effectively, his Ph.D. was worthless to him. My intent is not to discourage you, but to ensure you go in with your eyes fully open. You might find out that there are great organizations that would be happy to hire you at a livable wage.
My opinion, FWIW, (perhaps not much), classical music is in decline in North America, in Europe it's stable, but in China it seems to be growing. Work as hard and as smart as you can with your music studies, but also think of learning mandarin now. Later on, when you're ready to audition for the orchestra gigs, you can have an advantage as you'd be better prepared to move to China for actual work.
25 is young. (the issue is not your age, but if there is enough paying work here to support the field.)
Something to think about...
25 is young. (the issue is not your age, but if there is enough paying work here to support the field.)
Something to think about...
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I'll put it this way: the more I think about, the more I'd like to study classical music and learn something like cello or violin (the right way) AFTER I retire. And I'm 30 years old. For now, I prefer to stick to good, old, dirty popular music which I love. Why? Because I think it's better to play popular genres while I'm young.
I know, things happen, and maybe by that time I'm still here, maybe I'm gone... but age is not an issue for me.
I believe there is no age for music. And it seems many people in classical and jazz settings are of all ages.
I know, things happen, and maybe by that time I'm still here, maybe I'm gone... but age is not an issue for me.
I believe there is no age for music. And it seems many people in classical and jazz settings are of all ages.
Lots of great advise here. Thanks, bass-playing-community! As you see, we are very supportive of each other!
I really can't add a whole lot to what has been suggested. I agree, it is never too late to reach a music goal. But as you age, dexterity changes. I am not saying that you can't do stuff, I simply mean that what you could do at 25 may require a different approach at 40, then again at 55...etc. I now play, I think, with more soul, but I cannot play as fast as when I was 25... but my ear is better, I don't accept intonation problems as easily, but I have more trouble playing in tune! So, like I said, your technique needs to change with aging.
Yes there are many older players in symphonies, but the fact is, professional symphonies generally hire younger players. However, the more experienced a player is, the more marketable in all genres of music.
So take the advise of all of us...filter it to meet your needs. Then GO FOR IT!! I have found that attaining your own goals, rather than those given to you by others, is the most rewarding.
Best!
PN
I really can't add a whole lot to what has been suggested. I agree, it is never too late to reach a music goal. But as you age, dexterity changes. I am not saying that you can't do stuff, I simply mean that what you could do at 25 may require a different approach at 40, then again at 55...etc. I now play, I think, with more soul, but I cannot play as fast as when I was 25... but my ear is better, I don't accept intonation problems as easily, but I have more trouble playing in tune! So, like I said, your technique needs to change with aging.
Yes there are many older players in symphonies, but the fact is, professional symphonies generally hire younger players. However, the more experienced a player is, the more marketable in all genres of music.
So take the advise of all of us...filter it to meet your needs. Then GO FOR IT!! I have found that attaining your own goals, rather than those given to you by others, is the most rewarding.
Best!
PN
Hopefully I'm not too late to throw in a small contribution. I started playing double bass in 2001. I was 24 and I had been playing electric bass since my teenage years. I studied and obtained an undergrad degree at a school that has very little musical clout and I received my master's in music ed. from another school.
During that time I applied myself daily to hours of practice and immersion in music, mainly jazz and classical. There was a lot of growth and a lot of frustration, but it has been worth it.
My short term goals were to be able to play jazz gigs and lower level pick up orchestra. My midterm goals were to make the local symphony, which is a very good small orchestra, and continue to play increasingly challenging and expressive jazz gigs. My long term goals are to be a principal in a similar or larger symphony orchestra.
Fast forward 12 years: I am playing a lot of jazz gigs and have recorded three albums with an all original jazz project, as well as, some albums as session work. I play in orchestras for about 4 to 5 musicals productions per year. I play 1 to 2 opera productions per year. I do freelance orchestra work with ensembles primarily made up of musicians that are members of the local symphony orchestra.
So I am about halfway there. I've met my short term goals. I've partially met my mid term goals. With determination and good guidance I believe I will meet the rest of my mid term goals and be able to focus on my long term goals.
During that time I applied myself daily to hours of practice and immersion in music, mainly jazz and classical. There was a lot of growth and a lot of frustration, but it has been worth it.
My short term goals were to be able to play jazz gigs and lower level pick up orchestra. My midterm goals were to make the local symphony, which is a very good small orchestra, and continue to play increasingly challenging and expressive jazz gigs. My long term goals are to be a principal in a similar or larger symphony orchestra.
Fast forward 12 years: I am playing a lot of jazz gigs and have recorded three albums with an all original jazz project, as well as, some albums as session work. I play in orchestras for about 4 to 5 musicals productions per year. I play 1 to 2 opera productions per year. I do freelance orchestra work with ensembles primarily made up of musicians that are members of the local symphony orchestra.
So I am about halfway there. I've met my short term goals. I've partially met my mid term goals. With determination and good guidance I believe I will meet the rest of my mid term goals and be able to focus on my long term goals.
25 is on the later side, it usually takes at least 5-8 years to start feeling like you know what you are doing.... You will need to study for a while and put in serious time, which means working full time elsewhere is going to be a challenge. But, there are individuals who have started late and made it happen...it will have to do with your general talent level, and how much and how smart you work! Make a plan and set goals, good luck!
you also dont need a degree in music to get the kind of music education that you can get in college. just get a teacher and dive in 100%. immerse yourself. i've learned much more since leaving college than i did as a music major. the college experience brought many performance opportunities and networking opportunities that may have been hard for me to find otherwise, but ive found that i had access to the same teachers after graduation that i had access to in college, and i had more time to get the stuff down when studying privately. in college i felt like i was trying to read a newspaper while a dog was chasing me down the street, and i was forced to work on and learn stuff that i just needed in order to pass the class or tests and never used again. studying privately you can focus on your unique and individual needs. music college is great, but not necessary
Bruce Bransby and Jack Budrow to name a few... One should be realistic about their priorities and their goals, but there's no set age of course!
Interesting thread - so people have mentioned different things they do and surely you can be successful without securing the narrow aim of playing in a well- paying orchestra?
Some people might actually prefer more variety - different styles of music, chamber, jazz,shows etc. and mixing it up with teaching, mentoring,workshops etc. ?
Some people might actually prefer more variety - different styles of music, chamber, jazz,shows etc. and mixing it up with teaching, mentoring,workshops etc. ?
If you love it to ahead. When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, you'll succeed. My bass teacher is in perhaps his 50's and he says to most all of his middleschool and highschool students that becoming an orchestral player is very hard since there are no jobs. But if it's what you feel you want to do with your life, do it. Hell, what do I know I'm a kid.
If help it ?!?! I started play double bass in 25 years of my age,when i was 27 i started study conservatorium, before i played tuba and bassguitar
. Recently i am 45 and i am self employed double bass player, but all the time i am practicing daily couple hours. Most bussy i am as jazz player, but i am working on my classical solo double bass repertoire as well some concertos (recently Bottesini no.2). Necessary to say , i realise taht i could be much better if i would not wasted time by wrong practicing, but i assume that lot of musicians. To be honnest i am do not practicing jazz, only bowing.
Big Hoss
Up note, down note, blue note, brown note...
- Sep 5, 2014
- 5,454
- 4,228
- 4,876
- Disclosures
- None
Only if you anticipate not living past about 30 or so....
Seriously, why would the thought of 25 being too old to be a bass player enter your mind? Especially in classical / art / serious music. You might be a bit on the old side for a kiddie bubble gum band, but for pretty much everything else you are good to go until you either physically can't play any more, and your medical condition will dictate that, not how many checked out dates you have on a calendar. There are plenty of 12 year olds that physically will never be able to play bass period, not just at that level. There are plenty of 60 somethings that are making their living in serious music, or just entering professional music after retiring from their corporate gigs...
Seriously, why would the thought of 25 being too old to be a bass player enter your mind? Especially in classical / art / serious music. You might be a bit on the old side for a kiddie bubble gum band, but for pretty much everything else you are good to go until you either physically can't play any more, and your medical condition will dictate that, not how many checked out dates you have on a calendar. There are plenty of 12 year olds that physically will never be able to play bass period, not just at that level. There are plenty of 60 somethings that are making their living in serious music, or just entering professional music after retiring from their corporate gigs...
Like Tom Lane said, go into it with eyes wide open. The odds of landing an orchestra gig with a full-time salary are long, even for players who've been at it for a decade or more. In your case, to use a football analogy, it's "fourth and long." That doesn't mean you can't do it, but you need to be aware of the challenges and do some honest soul searching to see if you're up for it:
1. Are you working for a living, or is someone else paying the bills? You need to be prepared to average six hours a day of focused, productive practice to cultivate the level of playing that wins professional auditions. If you're holding down a day job to pay the bills, it complicates things. A lot. The other route is to go deep into debt for student loans, an audition-caliber instrument, etc. Read Jason Heath's blog posts about the economics of becoming a professional musician.
2. Are you prepared to sacrifice many other aspects of life to serve your goal? If you practice hours a day, gig, and/or work to pay the bills, it doesn't leave much time for recreation, romantic relationships, starting a family, and a lot of other facets of life that "normal" people enjoy. Can you endure a decade of this lifestyle without a guaranteed payoff in the form of a job with an orchestra? If it doesn't pan out, will you feel regret for the years, experiences, opportunities, and relationships you've left behind?
When I was in my early 20s, I played my one and only professional audition, for a full-time orchestra an hour's drive from me. The results were good: I outplayed a lot of experienced players and was off to a promising start. However, in my heart, I knew that I didn't want to go into debt traveling cross-country with a bass for the next 2-5 years while driving a bus to make a subsistence living. I got started in broadcasting by happenstance, and once I started earning a salary, I never looked back: marriage, mortgage, two great kids, a career that has grown in all kinds of interesting, stimulating ways... And these days I'm having a ball playing in a regional community orchestra, together with some folks who were my classmates years ago. Life is great, even though I didn't "follow my dream."
No one wants to steer you away from chasing the dream, but remember: eyes wide open. Know what the costs will be. Only you can decide if it's worth rolling the dice.
Whatever path you choose, I hope you have good luck along the way!
1. Are you working for a living, or is someone else paying the bills? You need to be prepared to average six hours a day of focused, productive practice to cultivate the level of playing that wins professional auditions. If you're holding down a day job to pay the bills, it complicates things. A lot. The other route is to go deep into debt for student loans, an audition-caliber instrument, etc. Read Jason Heath's blog posts about the economics of becoming a professional musician.
2. Are you prepared to sacrifice many other aspects of life to serve your goal? If you practice hours a day, gig, and/or work to pay the bills, it doesn't leave much time for recreation, romantic relationships, starting a family, and a lot of other facets of life that "normal" people enjoy. Can you endure a decade of this lifestyle without a guaranteed payoff in the form of a job with an orchestra? If it doesn't pan out, will you feel regret for the years, experiences, opportunities, and relationships you've left behind?
When I was in my early 20s, I played my one and only professional audition, for a full-time orchestra an hour's drive from me. The results were good: I outplayed a lot of experienced players and was off to a promising start. However, in my heart, I knew that I didn't want to go into debt traveling cross-country with a bass for the next 2-5 years while driving a bus to make a subsistence living. I got started in broadcasting by happenstance, and once I started earning a salary, I never looked back: marriage, mortgage, two great kids, a career that has grown in all kinds of interesting, stimulating ways... And these days I'm having a ball playing in a regional community orchestra, together with some folks who were my classmates years ago. Life is great, even though I didn't "follow my dream."
No one wants to steer you away from chasing the dream, but remember: eyes wide open. Know what the costs will be. Only you can decide if it's worth rolling the dice.
Whatever path you choose, I hope you have good luck along the way!
I started playing double bass at 24 and I distinctly remember my Streicher book advising against seeking a career in music after 24 years of age. Although I started off studying classical my interests grew and I began learning many different styles of playing. Like many of us studying an instrument I got called for gigs and it became apparent that I was not going to make a living being a classical player, however, (now 50) I have since traveled the world many times over and met and played with some of the legends of many different kinds of music. Go for your dream but stay open and curious.
Now I'm no pro, but 25 is still very young. If you ask me, if you can hold the instrument, you're never too old to play it. 
Eyes wide open. Read the fine print. The solo competitions etc. often have the following addendum, " Open to those who are still under the age of 35 as of the competition/audition date." At age 25, you need to really start kranking on bow technique, and know your orchestral excerpts backwards and forwards, note for note, without allowing for any slack on any single passage. Before the modern days of video, we used to have to send in tapes, and hope to be invited to an audition for one, or if we were lucky two orchestra positions. (The first position was usually "Principal" or "Asst. Principal", and the second position was "Section Player". Many a person qualified to be a "Principal" was glad to be offered the job of "Section" Player. Such jobs would usually draw 100 or so auditionees. Of those 100, 10 might get a call back for the second round. Of those 10, 3-5 might get a call back for the finals. Between the travel time, down time between the audition rounds, etc...coming in 2nd or 3rd place was a very expensive place to be. A few times around the circuit like that left many a fine player living on Ramen Noodles and Hope. ----I discourage no one, because it is a great dream, and at one time it was my dream as well. I do, however, encourage you to get all of the above facts in your head, and make darned sure you can live with the life style such a choice brings. THe pay off could be huge, or it could be al ifetime of Ramen Noodles. I was fortunate enough to end up laying many different styles which led to many different types of gigs. I still gig nowadays, and pass along whatever knowledge I can to my students, but I also enjoy my life as a teacher.