Is it a good idea to use a Hi-Fi speaker for my double bass?

George Sgouros

George Sgouros

Apr 12, 2019
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#1
By the time I plugged my double bass to my brand new Markbass Marcus Miller CMD 101 Micro 60 combo and played the first notes, I was really disappointed.

Fiddling with the EQ settings did not help in any way. My double bass, sounded fake to my ears, having excessive mids, a bit of audible distortion and lacks low freq. I can imagine that the output of Markbass could be acceptable to the ears of someone else, or if used in a different setup (eg with an electric bass), but to me, it is far from what I expected (I must admit, I bought the combo without first hearing it, but there was no easy way to do that).

Until I buy my combo, I used to practice using my preamp (Fishman Platinum Pro EQ preamp) and plugging it to my hi-fi system which features a pair of B&W DM 602 speakers. Now that I can make the comparison, it takes only one B&W to really blow away my new Markbass! It's not the level, it's the roundness of the bass, the sound fidelity, the lack of coloring and distortion, I could go on.

So here are my questions:
  1. If DM602 was really so superior, I would have seen similar solutions in live gigs. So what am I missing here? Could somebody suggest WHY is the output of the 602 so good to my ears comparing to the Markbass combo?
  2. Do you think that it is a good idea to return the Markbass and try something else? (I see good reviews about Phil Jones Double 4)
  3. If according to your opinion, ordering another combo for the same price will yield comparable results to my existing combo, do you thing it would be a good idea to try the DIY way solution and for a setup using:
(a) a used DM602 or a similar hi-fi speaker
(b) a standalone (without speaker) bass amp?

Could this work according to your experience?

Thanks in advance

George

- my double bass pickup is a Shadow SH951 Double Bass Pickup
- I will use my setup for practice and for playing at small venues (no drummer)
 
Last edited:
#3
I am not familiar with the pickup you mentioned. I looked it up and it is favored for rockabilly. The only reviews I found were on Amazon. One reviewer noted it was a bit mid forward. With two reviews, the average was 3.3 stars out of 5.

I used the Gage Realist and found it was pretty decent for the crossover work I did. It bowed pretty well, but the pizz sound was kind of average. The best sounding pickup I have ever heard on string bass is the Ehrlund EAP, but it is expensive, sensitive to placement, and very authentic to the bass when you find the sweet spot. If the bass sounds great the Ehrlund gets a :thumbsup:. If the bass does not sound great you should avoid the Ehrlund :poop:.

I have used the older analog Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, but not the current digital one. I thought it was OK but not great; a bit woolly & loose sounding. The notch filter is helpful but the EQ is pretty limited and, IMHO, you often need more than one notch.

In my experience, a full range flat response rig can be beneficial with string bass. I have used several 3-way cabs in the past and the response was really smooth and articulate.

My last touring rig used an Eden D210XLT speaker driven by a QSC USA series power amp. I used an Ashley MX508 rack mixer for the front end. I doubled on string bass, 6-string electric, and 6-string electric upright. I used Shure A95U line matching transformers so I could plug straight into the mic inputs of the mixer. For local gigs I used a GK 700RB/112 combo. Neither the Eden nor GK were as smooth and articulate as the earlier 3-way cabs, but they were way smaller and lighter.

Also, IMHO, the instrument may benefit from having multiple bands of fully parametric EQ or a 31 band graphic EQ if you need to play with much volume. Here is a post I wrote on EQ strategies EQ Pedal for Upright

Actually the entire thread is a pretty good read (but not everyone agrees with me :bawl:...;)) EQ Pedal for Upright
 
#5
Now to answer your questions directly.

No, I would not use your B&W DM 602s as you will most likely damage them.

If you don't like the sound of the CMD 101, return it and get something you like.

I suspect you are looking for super compact and inexpensive. You are unlikely to find this in combination with loud and high fidelity. I am sure the Phil Jones Double 4 will sound great, but I would not expect it to be very loud.

If I were looking for a compact professional rig, I might consider the following two options:

1. EA Doubler. Lot's of string bass players love the Wizzys, but the NL-112 will be way more HiFi.
Products - Euphonic Audio

2. Genzler BA350 combo with the matching 10-2 Bass Array extension cab....in other words two 10-2 cabs total.
Magellan 350 Combo - Genzler Amplification
Bass Array 10-2 - Genzler Amplification

Lots of string bass players like Acoustic Image as well. I found them nice for jazz combo, but not quite loud enough for big band work.

Acoustic Image

Unfortunately all of these options are pricey...If you want really pricey look at AER AER Amps
 
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#9
Wasnex said:
Lots of string bass players like Acoustic Image as well. I found them nice for jazz combo, but not quite loud enough for big band work.

Acoustic Image
Click to expand...

Have you tried the 210 one? That would be plenty for the big band I sub in, for sure. But not all that lightweight IIRC.
 
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#10
George Sgouros said:
By the time I plugged my double bass to my brand new Markbass Marcus Miller CMD 101 Micro 60 combo and played the first notes, I was really disappointed.

Fiddling with the EQ settings did not help in any way. My double bass, sounded fake to my ears, having excessive mids, a bit of audible distortion and lacks low freq. I can imagine that the output of Markbass could be acceptable to the ears of someone else, or if used in a different setup (eg with an electric bass), but to me, it is far from what I expected (I must admit, I bought the combo without first hearing it, but there was no easy way to do that).

Until I buy my combo, I used to practice using my preamp (Fishman Platinum Pro EQ preamp) and plugging it to my hi-fi system which features a pair of B&W DM 602 speakers. Now that I can make the comparison, it takes only one B&W to really blow away my new Markbass! It's not the level, it's the roundness of the bass, the sound fidelity, the lack of coloring and distortion, I could go on.

So here are my questions:
  1. If DM602 was really so superior, I would have seen similar solutions in live gigs. So what am I missing here? Could somebody suggest WHY is the output of the 602 so good to my ears comparing to the Markbass combo?
  2. Do you think that it is a good idea to return the Markbass and try something else? (I see good reviews about Phil Jones Double 4)
  3. If according to your opinion, ordering another combo for the same price will yield comparable results to my existing combo, do you thing it would be a good idea to try the DIY way solution and for a setup using:
(a) a used DM602 or a similar hi-fi speaker
(b) a standalone (without speaker) bass amp?

Could this work according to your experience?

Thanks in advance

George

- my double bass pickup is a Shadow SH951 Double Bass Pickup
- I will use my setup for practice and for playing at small venues (no drummer)
Click to expand...

First, i'll say there is a double bass amps section on this forum and you posted this on the electric bass side. Check that out to see what other double bassists are using around here.

Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]

Alot of double bass players will use full frequency powered PA speakers in lieu of something designed specifically for bass due to what you are experiencing. You could easily just get a powered PA speaker and plug your fishman into that for a less colored sound. Most electric bass amps are going to color the sound in some way, and some will play nicer than others with a double bass. I personally like Gallien Kreuger gear for double bass, they seem to voice their gear well for that application. With that said i have seen players use Markbass too, and it might just take some EQing to get to the tone you like.

60 watts is pretty low for amplifying double bass. I recommend 200w and above to do it justice.
 
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#13
Yes, A high end stereo system will sound better than a musical instrument amplifier. The issue is as others have noted, you can blow it up quite easily, even at relatively low volume. One misplaced pluck and your speaker cones will try to jump right out of the box.
 
#14
Wasnex said:
My experience was with the original amp and an extension speaker. The current amps have considerably more power, but the listed max SPL of the 210 is only 116dB.
Click to expand...

Tradeoffs, always tradeoffs...
Yel_wink.gif
 
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#15
George Sgouros said:
My double bass, sounded fake to my ears, having excessive mids, a bit of audible distortion and lacks low freq. I can imagine that the output of Markbass could be acceptable to the ears of someone else
Click to expand...

I dunno, that sounds more just plain broken to me. The suggestion to try running it through the preamp sounds good, or if the pickup and amp are both new maybe you can call the store or the manufacturer to ask them for advice.
 
#17
I find that on my Markbass (CMD 121P combo), using a Realist Lifeline pickup, that I typically get better sound with some rather heavy use of EQ. I usually have to back way off on the low end and crank the upper mids quite a bit. It seems to vary widely depending on the room I’m playing in. But so far I’ve always found a sound I like, even though it’s not exactly the acoustic sound of my bass. At least with the Lifeline my bass sounds better without an additional preamp, but YMMV.
 
#18
While shopping for my now-in-queue 1x12 Audiokinesis Hathor, I was interested for a time in the Thunderchild. Seems to be a very strong contender for double bass as it gives a natural, transparent, wide-range response, and does 500W of it. (tradeoff being that electric bass will need either a preamp and/or cab sim or seriously grunty pickups to get a fully characteristic tone. Makes sense)

Since double bass lives more in the low mids than the bottom-end lows, the Birdhaus could be practical for a lot of gigs too.
 
#19
I love Markbass for electric, but can never quite get the sound I want for upright. A piezo sounds too honky through them, imho. A preamp will help a bit. Instead, I'm using a tone hammer pedal for EQ into a Broughton Hpf into a Quilter bass block, using an Audiokinesis Hathor cab. Sounds great, but this wasn't really a budget solution. (This set up is built around doubling with electric, not pure upright, and I find it a good middle ground for both) If you don't need a ton of volume, but more than a Phil, I think QSC or Yamaha pa speakers sound good with a piezo and a preamp.
 
#20
I've owned Markbass gear in the past but found that they had too much of a baked-in sound for me. Not sure where you are ocated and what your budget is. My current rig for URB is an Acoustic Image Coda amp (600 watts, plenty of power) and either a RevSound 28 or 210 speaker, depending on how loud I need to be. Going with separate components gives me more flexibility than a combo amp. The head only weighs 2.5 lbs so its an easy carry. The 2x8 cabinet is 18 lbs.
 
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