Is that a train i see comin?

john_g

john_g

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Sep 14, 2007
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#1
More of a rant but...My cover band of the last 5 years (3 years with the current lineup) may be on the verge of collapse. We have an amazing lineup, all work hard and if I do say myself, are one of the top in our area. However, our drummer has been slowly "checking out". He has other interests which conflict sometimes and you can just see his enthusiasm draining. However, he is an amazing drummer and nice guy but, you can see he is on the way out.

In the meantime our singer recommended a guy he became friends with. We had a couple of upcoming gigs where we need a fill in so we thought, lets try him out and even play those gigs as a tryout. But, he just isnt good enough. Just did a gig with him and it wasnt good but singer was all excited and thought he did well.

I said I was willing to see how it goes on next fill in and then make a decision, but i know he just isnt the guy. Singer says he wants to move forward with him and fire our current drummer. In the meantime, singer messaged guitarist to see what he thinks and he bluntly said, no way. Guitarist was very open minded and excited before the gig hoping drummer would pick it up. Nope. All came to a head on a group chat this morning.

Singer is super bummed. The current drummer situation has been stressing him out alot and he is good friends with this other guy, so he thought the problems were fixed. All except this guy is no where near good enough. I asked him if he is quitting and he said no, but, he is very disappointed. He knows alot of people and gets us gigs like crazy. And he is a great singer and good guy so, if we lose him this band is over. Good singers/front people with lots of contacts and ability to get gigs is like being a hot 23 year old girl on a dating app. Lots of options. Hope he isnt so bummed that he quits.

I said we should all get together and talk it out and everyone agreed. Hoping the train isnt coming to run us over.

Band politics are a pain.

Rant over.
 
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#2
john_g said:
More of a rant but...My cover band of the last 5 years (3 years with the current lineup) may be on the verge of collapse. We have an amazing lineup, all work hard and if I do say myself, are one of the top in our area. However, our drummer has been slowly "checking out". He has other interests which conflict sometimes and you can just see his enthusiasm draining. However, he is an amazing drummer and nice guy but, you can see he is on the way out.

In the meantime our singer recommended a guy he became friends with. We had a couple of upcoming gigs where we need a fill in so we thought, lets try him out and even play those gigs as a tryout. But, he just isnt good enough. Just did a gig with him and it wasnt good but singer was all excited and thought he did well.

I said I was willing to see how it goes on next fill in and then make a decision, but i know he just isnt the guy. Singer says he wants to move forward with him and fire our current drummer. In the meantime, singer messaged guitarist to see what he thinks and he bluntly said, no way. Guitarist was very open minded and excited before the gig hoping drummer would pick it up. Nope. All came to a head on a group chat this morning.

Singer is super bummed. The current drummer situation has been stressing him out alot and he is good friends with this other guy, so he thought the problems were fixed. All except this guy is no where near good enough. I asked him if he is quitting and he said no, but, he is very disappointed. He knows alot of people and gets us gigs like crazy. And he is a great singer and good guy so, if we lose him this band is over. Good singers/front people with lots of contacts and ability to get gigs is like being a hot 23 year old girl on a dating app. Lots of options. Hope he isnt so bummed that he quits.

I said we should all get together and talk it out and everyone agreed. Hoping the train isnt coming to run us over.

Band politics are a pain.

Rant over.
Click to expand...
I would say try to work things out to stay aligned with the singer, if he's that good, is the draw, and gets the gigs. A good drummer is a blessing in a band, for sure, but I've seen lots of bands have good success with less than great drummers, too.
 
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#3
just be careful the train you see doesn't make you jump out of the way and into the path of another train coming up from behind on another track.

What are the current drummer's other interests? Different music genres or something entirely non-musical?
 
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#4
bluesfordan said:
just be careful the train you see doesn't make you jump out of the way and into the path of another train coming up from behind on another track.

What are the current drummer's other interests? Different music genres or something entirely non-musical?
Click to expand...
Non musical interests. Nice guy and amazing drummer, we make a formidable team. But you can just see his enthusiasm dwindle. His drumming is a big part of our sound. We almost replaced him a couple years ago because of this but we had a talk with him and he committed. Singer talked to him again a couple months ago and its gotten worse since. Just think he would rather go do his other thing sometime instead of playing a little bar with no air conditioning for $150.

this new guy has zero groove/pocket. Like, zero. Out go several very popular songs because he cant do it and I cant lock with him (ive played with all sorts of drummers in my 36 years of playing, but this guy is just so...off. idk)

Trying to keep singer happy for sure, to a certain point that is. This isnt our job so Im willing to go along most of the time. Hope we can keep this going but, if its time, its time...

i guess.
 
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#5
51PRI said:
I would say try to work things out to stay aligned with the singer, if he's that good, is the draw, and gets the gigs. A good drummer is a blessing in a band, for sure, but I've seen lots of bands have good success with less than great drummers, too.
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Thats what we were trying to do. We knew it would be a step back as far as ability/sound but, man its not even in the same zip code. Could we keep it going and some people not notice? Probably but they would need a decent amount of alcohol. But this gig we just did, me and guitarist were miserable. I see more of that if we went with him. Then I would likely quit. Sounds like guitarist was thinking same thing.
 
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#6
Find a nice, political way of telling your singer that singers cannot tell a drummer from a chicken sandwich and shut up until the lights go on. But say it nicely.

One thing you can try is play a video of the same song with each drummer so you can show evidence instead of just debating.

You can also have the conversation with the drummer and say they are the best but the attitude/commitment needs to return to what it was.
 
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#7
Killing Floor said:
Find a nice, political way of telling your singer that singers cannot tell a drummer from a chicken sandwich and shut up until the lights go on. But say it nicely.

One thing you can try is play a video of the same song with each drummer so you can show evidence instead of just debating.

You can also have the conversation with the drummer and say they are the best but the attitude/commitment needs to return to what it was.
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Maybe dig up the bootleg of The Beatles' Decca Records Demo sessions audition with Pete Best on drums. At first it sounds okey but the more you listen the more you realize that Pete Best was no RIngo Starr.
 
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#8
This is why you need to be very very careful..to the point that its almost a no go area ...with friends in bands.
You pick the best fit not your best mate..unless he ticks every box and not being good enough is pretty much top of the list of those ticks.
And you should have made it clear in the very beginning...crystal clear..that no one pulls that stunt and gets ahead of themselves without discussing it fully and getting concensus.
Unless you can turn back the tide...which is going to take a lot of work and talking rationally... you've lost the band.

I vetoed a drummer, along with another members vote, but singer wanted him in...backed by gtr whose mate it was.
We left and band still going on and on but everyone knows they arent what they were... including, now belatedly, the singer.

Never downgrade and expect it to end well...
 
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#10
Wow! My band is not collapsing but the musicianship has gone down greatly since the beginning. Mostly in the drums department. Current drummer is horrible and barely functional. We lost a really good guitarist over a miscommunication and the BL is not willing to bring him back. Very stubborn. She is not a musician so she's not hearing what I hear. She's also constantly adding songs without any thought to the musicians capacity to learn the stuff quickly. In doing so, we don't get a chance to tighten up the songs we already have. I hope y'all get it sorted. I would just be honest with her and let her know that the drummer is not on par and not to let the friendship get in the way. Audition other drummers. I'm not a fan of cats just being placed in the band without the band's input. That's a really quick way to kill a band!
 
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#11
john_g said:
More of a rant but...My cover band of the last 5 years (3 years with the current lineup) may be on the verge of collapse. We have an amazing lineup, all work hard and if I do say myself, are one of the top in our area. However, our drummer has been slowly "checking out". He has other interests which conflict sometimes and you can just see his enthusiasm draining. However, he is an amazing drummer and nice guy but, you can see he is on the way out.

In the meantime our singer recommended a guy he became friends with. We had a couple of upcoming gigs where we need a fill in so we thought, lets try him out and even play those gigs as a tryout. But, he just isnt good enough. Just did a gig with him and it wasnt good but singer was all excited and thought he did well.

I said I was willing to see how it goes on next fill in and then make a decision, but i know he just isnt the guy. Singer says he wants to move forward with him and fire our current drummer. In the meantime, singer messaged guitarist to see what he thinks and he bluntly said, no way. Guitarist was very open minded and excited before the gig hoping drummer would pick it up. Nope. All came to a head on a group chat this morning.

Singer is super bummed. The current drummer situation has been stressing him out alot and he is good friends with this other guy, so he thought the problems were fixed. All except this guy is no where near good enough. I asked him if he is quitting and he said no, but, he is very disappointed. He knows alot of people and gets us gigs like crazy. And he is a great singer and good guy so, if we lose him this band is over. Good singers/front people with lots of contacts and ability to get gigs is like being a hot 23 year old girl on a dating app. Lots of options. Hope he isnt so bummed that he quits.

I said we should all get together and talk it out and everyone agreed. Hoping the train isnt coming to run us over.

Band politics are a pain.

Rant over.
Click to expand...
Is there a chance the drummer can improve? I mean, it's a coverband right, so, could he tighten it up? Step up his game? Put in a bunch of hours so that you and guitarist accept him?
Tbh I don't think this is the end. It does seem like the three of you need to communicate abit better tho. Walking around THINKING he might leave is not good. Accept his answer as a no, and continue looking for a replacement drummer, or tell the new one to improve and he can join.
He can't work on what he doesnt know needs work, ya know?
Or maybe even have a heart to heart with current drummer, ask him if he's on the way out. If yes, ask/tell him to find his own replacement, or train the new guy?

Also, singer is stressed, right? Is that because he feels like finding a new drummer is all on him?
Have you guys made any effort to find a new one?
Tbh, I'd be pretty bummed if my band had a problem, and I was the only one actually working on fixing it (finding new guy). And then after having found something acceptable, being shot down by someone who had done nothing to solve the problem. Dont you agree?

Wish you the best of luck mate.
 
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#12
H K said:
Is there a chance the drummer can improve? I mean, it's a coverband right, so, could he tighten it up? Step up his game? Put in a bunch of hours so that you and guitarist accept him?
Tbh I don't think this is the end. It does seem like the three of you need to communicate abit better tho. Walking around THINKING he might leave is not good. Accept his answer as a no, and continue looking for a replacement drummer, or tell the new one to improve and he can join.
He can't work on what he doesnt know needs work, ya know?
Or maybe even have a heart to heart with current drummer, ask him if he's on the way out. If yes, ask/tell him to find his own replacement, or train the new guy?

Also, singer is stressed, right? Is that because he feels like finding a new drummer is all on him?
Have you guys made any effort to find a new one?
Tbh, I'd be pretty bummed if my band had a problem, and I was the only one actually working on fixing it (finding new guy). And then after having found something acceptable, being shot down by someone who had done nothing to solve the problem. Dont you agree?

Wish you the best of luck mate.
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We have slowly been having issues with current drummer and then singer says...hey, wait, THIS guy plays drums lets try him. in his words, it just fell into our lap so he was hoping it would be a quick and easy solution to our problem. And yes, he COULD get better I suppose over time. But, wow, he wasnt anywhere close to what I expected. And, there is some serious talent in this band top to bottom..why again are we trying to turn an undrafted free agent into a starter again? Guitarist and I said we will handle the search going forward if it takes pressure off of him.

My official stance was I would like to make a decision after the 3 fill in gigs he was initially brought in for. Yeah, longer than most cover bands take to make a decision but again, he was originally supposed to just fill in. I suspect he was told along the way that we are having issues with current drummer, and singer probably said that if it goes well, he could be the next drummer (which irks me a bit too, why say that before he has even tried out?)

The guitarist, who has been very upbeat about this guy and excited to play with him this past weekend, just looked at me after the gig and said...OH HELL NO. And he was the one that told the singer exactly what he thought this morning in a message. He said, no point in lying. We tried it and he is just not good enough. Ughh, i hope it doesnt implode but, it is what it is.
 
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#13
If you are going to veto the singer's drum buddy, you better have a better alternative ready to try out, otherwise you are the problem in the singer's eyes.

If you have a better alternative and the singer still insists on his friend, then you guys are done.
 
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#14
Common band politics. We are going through something similar now.

You may end up with two pissed off drummers. My advice to you is to use caution if you have gigs on the books and no one who can step in at a moments notice.
 
#16
MattZilla said:
If you guys are really good, you gotta hunt out & negotiate better gigs than $150/player small bars.
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We do get a decent amount of much higher paying gigs but, that is an average. And, this isnt NYC and we all have families and jobs so, right now its not ideal to branch out even further than we already do for even bigger paydays. All this is kind of besides the point but sure what the hell, id love to lure a drummer with promises of $1000 per guy gigs. Maybe if I tell everyone we are Bon Jovi?
 
#17
If I read this right (?) he actually auditioned for the band at a gig? First mistake is doing just that. His audition should have been at a rehearsal. Maybe no time to actually do that? Then it would have shown you what you needed to know about his abilities. One person's opinion isn't the bands full opinion. That whole situation has created some pretty tough feelings. That's all water over the dam and you needed someone.

With as much dissatisfaction, and no where to turn immediately, I'd have a come to Jesus meeting with this current replacement drummer. Be honest, and tell him you don't know what he's been told but, he isn't a shoe in. This guy needs to know he better get his ass to work if he has a chance to play with a top rated group. See if there is any change after the talk. At the same time start looking for a second replacement. Have a real audition(s) and not during a gig. That just isn't right. If your original drummer takes the bus you would like to have a competent replacement.

A replacement drummer(s) like the one you have currently don't work off of or with the bass player like they should. They use a guitar player instead for their focus. That makes a mess of things in a quick hurry and it's easy to detect. They seldom change from that type of playing. You won't ever lock in with him under these circumstances. Good luck!
 
#18
I don't get why bands have to make this so hard. FIRST sit down with your drummer. If he wants out, do it all open and above board. Then have a band meeting and vote on the drummer that no one wants. This "johnny called bobby, then bobby called billy, then billy called paul, then paul called johnny" is counterproductive. Everyone in the room at once hashing it out. No need to trash him if he's the singers bud, just "he's not a good fit. Isn't really the master of our style." Or something along those lines. If the singer really isn't letting it go, then you could say, "Look, he's just not in our league." Then start looking for a new drummer.
 
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