Live Rig Expansion...Opinions Wanted....

Should a 2x10 be paired with....

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    51
MarkM13

MarkM13

Mar 29, 2015
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www.m13productions.com
#1
Greetings,

I'm looking at possibly expanding my live amp set-up. For the past 9 years I've used a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and Markbass 102 Traveler cab.
This setup has served me well from classic rock cover bands to straight ahead jazz quartets. Obviously this set-up runs at 8 ohms and I"m using only part of the GB's 450 available watts. If I want to run a 4 ohm setup for some larger venues I'm debating if I should add a 1x12 or 1x15 cab to the 2x10. I've never really dug a 15" in on its own but wondering if the 2x10 might be the perfect complement. My instinct is to run a 1x12 with the 2x10. But, I don't often see that setup and can't help but wonder why.
I should add that weight is an issue. Anything over 40# is out ... period. I'd love to just get a GR 112 or 115 but the four figure price tag is a bit much. Same with the Mesa Subway cabs.

So what say you? Use the poll or leave a note here. Feel free to suggest brands/models. Right now the front runners are:
1x12: MB 121Traveler, Orange OBC 112, Genzler NC112
1x15: MB 151 Traveler

Would like to keep it around the $500 mark and I always prefer used.
Lastly, I'm not looking to replace the GB 900 amp. For me, it's the perfect amp and has never left me wanting for more.
 
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#3
Mixing and matching cabinets always involves a bit (or a lot) of guesswork. Conventional wisdom states that if you want a second cabinet, your best odds of success are to get the same make and model you have now.

While it’s completely possible you might find an un-matching cabinet that gets along well with your current 102, getting a second 102 removes all the guesswork. It WILL get along well with your existing cabinet because it’s the same cabinet. You’ll get the sound you have now, but more of it.

I’m not saying you should never mix cabinets, but the results can be, well…. mixed.
 
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#5
I'll echo what's already been said, if you like the 210 you already have, get a second matching cabinet.
Takes the, "hope it'll work", out of the equation!

Stack them as a vertical 410 for better note clarity by getting the top driver up nearer your ears, or side by side down low for the coupling effect.

(Pic of what has worked for me for many years now.)

20240907_185322.jpg


Note: Added benefit. Having the second matching cabinet makes for a great table for your adult beverage during set-up! :thumbsup:
 
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#7
MarkM13 said:
Greetings,

I'm looking at possibly expanding my live amp set-up. For the past 9 years I've used a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and Markbass 102 Traveler cab.
This setup has served me well from classic rock cover bands to straight ahead jazz quartets. Obviously this set-up runs at 8 ohms and I"m using only part of the GB's 450 available watts. If I want to run a 4 ohm setup for some larger venues I'm debating if I should add a 1x12 or 1x15 cab to the 2x10. I've never really dug a 15" in on its own but wondering if the 2x10 might be the perfect complement. My instinct is to run a 1x12 with the 2x10. But, I don't often see that setup and can't help but wonder why.
I should add that weight is an issue. Anything over 40# is out ... period. I'd love to just get a GR 112 or 115 but the four figure price tag is a bit much. Same with the Mesa Subway cabs.

So what say you? Use the poll or leave a note here. Feel free to suggest brands/models. Right now the front runners are:
1x12: MB 121Traveler, Orange OBC 112, Genzler NC112
1x15: MB 151 Traveler

Would like to keep it around the $500 mark and I always prefer used.
Lastly, I'm not looking to replace the GB 900 amp. For me, it's the perfect amp and has never left me wanting for more.
Click to expand...
I think a second cab will round out your sound more than being significantly louder. There may be some noticeable tonal change with a mismatched cab that will not be noticeable 15 feet from your rig. Of course this is highly dependent on your choice of cab due to differences in efficiency ratings and cab design.

I’ve used two miss matched Eden 210 cabs a XLT and a XST for the the last 12 years for larger venues or outdoor concerts. When I use them I power they are powered with a stereo power amp so I can blend the balance. It’s of dubious value beyond the stage, as we always have FOH support but where I stand they do sound great. I’ve also powered them with a Mesa WT-800 (both cabs getting the same wattage) but that distinct difference is not as apparent.

One last point, my cabs are 8 ohm cabs which means my Mesa’s output will be 400 watts, Based on the efficiency rating of one cab, combined can put out up to 125 dBs. I’m not going to say that isn’t a bunch of marketing hooey, I will say that I play in a 12 piece Motown Review band with horns 5 vocalists (and their (5) 2000 watt monitors pointed at their knees but directly at my head most gigs) and I never have any problem hearing myself, or have trouble covering a room with seating of 700 without FOH support.

To quote a past President, Richard Nixon, “I said all this to say this about that.”, may be you don’t need a second cab. Rather you need to revisit the one that currently have that isn’t doing the job. JMO.
 
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#8
dbsfgyd1 said:
I think a second cab will round out your sound more than being significantly louder.
Click to expand...
Adding a matching cabs does fill out the low end, which may or may not be an advantage.

Adding a matching cab also usually provides noticeably more headroom. With a tube amp, the available power stays they same as long as the amp sees the expected load. Adding a matching cab results in the sensitivity going up (theoretically by 3dB). So with the same power, two cabs will be ~ +3db louder than one.

Many solid state amps produce more power as the impedance goes down. So in addition to getting ~+3dB in higher sensitivity, you also get the decibel change from the extra power. If the power doubles, the decibel change = 3dB. So when you add the matching cab, the total gain in headroom is ~+6dB.
 
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#9
I would go with a 115 because it will shake the walls thanks to the air movement it will create with your 210 and will allow you to use either your actual 210 or the 115 alone for different types of sounds depending on the venue or the room you will use it in. It’s called versatility !

A GK or Markbass 115 should do the job and fit with your budget.
 
#10
I do not think it a problem at all to mix different size speakers, but I think the more important thing would be to stay with the same speaker line, since you already like the 102 and its more likely to play well with another cab of the same design.
 
#12
MarkM13 said:
Greetings,

I'm looking at possibly expanding my live amp set-up. For the past 9 years I've used a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and Markbass 102 Traveler cab.
This setup has served me well from classic rock cover bands to straight ahead jazz quartets. Obviously this set-up runs at 8 ohms and I"m using only part of the GB's 450 available watts. If I want to run a 4 ohm setup for some larger venues I'm debating if I should add a 1x12 or 1x15 cab to the 2x10. I've never really dug a 15" in on its own but wondering if the 2x10 might be the perfect complement. My instinct is to run a 1x12 with the 2x10. But, I don't often see that setup and can't help but wonder why.
I should add that weight is an issue. Anything over 40# is out ... period. I'd love to just get a GR 112 or 115 but the four figure price tag is a bit much. Same with the Mesa Subway cabs.

So what say you? Use the poll or leave a note here. Feel free to suggest brands/models. Right now the front runners are:
1x12: MB 121Traveler, Orange OBC 112, Genzler NC112
1x15: MB 151 Traveler

Would like to keep it around the $500 mark and I always prefer used.
Lastly, I'm not looking to replace the GB 900 amp. For me, it's the perfect amp and has never left me wanting for more.
Click to expand...
I'd say leave what you have for stage monitoring, use a DI, and let the soundperson carry their gear. The are the best roadie for equipment and bass sound for the audience that any bassist ever has.
 
#13
Thunderthumbs73 said:
I'd say leave what you have for stage monitoring, use a DI, and let the soundperson carry their gear. The are the best roadie for equipment and bass sound for the audience that any bassist ever has.
Click to expand...

Not always a good option for everyone. Lots of bands travel light with vocals-only PA's, lots of venues with underwhelming sound systems and/or inept sound support.
 
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#17
If weight is a problem then Orange cabs are out of the question. Those things are well built and HEAVY...
Stick with the same brand, neodymium speakers. I'm not a fan of 10" speakers as I've destroyed every one I've ever owned... so I'd suggest the 15".
 
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#20
Vertically stacked 210's certainly couple. I also own a Traveler 1x15 with my pair of 2x10's. My first setup was a 210 over the 115. Once I picked up the second 210, I almost never use the 115. It's mainly relegated to being used alone or left at rehearsal spaces, but so infrequently I often consider selling it.

The second 210 doesn't simply make things louder, the rig gets more oomph, noticeably better horizonal dispersion, and a more even sound over distance than a square 4x10, as they become a column.
 
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