- Oct 16, 2014
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- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Langstrom Carrot Farms
This will be a very long read, as I'm trying to give as much detail as possible to get the best possible advice.
Background: I'm in a 90s hard rock cover band that consists of 2 singers, a guitarist, a drummer, and myself. It's my 1st real band (other than playing at church). None of us really have much (if any) experience in being in a band that plays gigs.
There was a blow-up between the two singers this past Sunday. The guitarist, drummer, and myself are going to meet tonight to discuss. I have a strong feeling that this will be the end of the band.
Here's the soap opera details. At one point the band consisted of the drummer, the guitarist, and myself practicing on Sunday nights in the drummer's garage. Then we added singer 1. After jamming with singer 1, we talked about adding another person that could do backup singing, backup guitars, and backup keyboards...just fill the spots that are needed. The drummer suggested his best friend. So, singer 2 came in and practiced with the band. On his own I thought he was an ok singer, but when the two of them sang together, I thought is sounded really powerful. The drummer and the guitarist agreed.
So then starts the experiment of trying to get the two of them to sing together. Singer 2 was all for it. Singer 1 hated it. Singer 1 said he wanted to hear a recording of it before he would completely agree to it. Singer 1 never seems to be able to get along with singer 2. In situations where we'd joke with each other, if singer 2 said something about singer 1, singer 1 would take it super personal and get angry and nasty. I blame myself for not trying to put a stop to this/saying something. Singer 2 seemed to just ignore it, so rather than confront singer 1 about his behavior, I thought it was growing pains and it would get better. Sometimes when it got too heated, one of us would speak up, but we never really addressed it properly. After time the aggressive nastiness seemed to go away, and was replaced with the occasional snippy comment.
We started getting more songs down, with the weak link being singer 1 still needing to read some of the song lyrics on his phone (not having them memorized at the pace of the rest of us). We moved from practicing in the drummer's garage to having our own rehearsal studio ($300 a month split amongst the band). Pretty much from the beginning of being in the studio, singer 2 would come to practice with alcohol. At first I thought it was just because he was excited we were in our own studio, but then noticed it became a habit. At one practice, he was very obnoxious and disruptive, to the point that the drummer (his best friend) was calling him out on his behavior. He apologized at the next practice, and I thought we all moved on.
We went to an open mic night and recorded it (), and things seemed to be progressing well. Then the next practice after that open mic night, singer 1 states that he doesn't like the two lead singer format. He said he listened to the video a lot, and he's just not a fan of it. So the 5 of us discussed it, and decided that we'd pretty much split our song list in half, and each of the singers would take turns being on stage (singer 1 gets set 1, singer 2 gets set 2, singer 1 gets set 3, singer 2 gets set 4). We decided that the two singers could decide that in the coming week, and that we'd just practice songs as normal for the rest of rehearsal. The last comment on the picking of songs was, if there's a disagreement on who sings what, then they each take turns picking songs.
So that brings us to this past Sunday. The guitarist wasn't there, as his wife just had a baby. I knew the two singers would not have communicated during the week, so I brought two list printouts and two pens. The four of us arrive, and singer 2 shows off a small bottle of Jack Daniels. He offers some to the rest of us. Singer 1 and myself decline. The drummer has a little bit. Then the singers are both "now what?". I hand them the pens and paper, tell them to go outside and figure it out. The drummer and I start practicing, but about 15 minutes later the singers are back. There's confusion. Singer 1 has chosen 2/3 of the songs. What? Oh, he was on a completely different page from the rest of us. The whole split the song list in half just went over his head. He brought up how singer 2 was invited into the band on the premise of backup singing, backup guitar, keyboard, and how that never happened. How it just became "he's a lead singer, too". Singer 1 said he was still processing this. The drummer and I talked about what was discussed at the previous practice, how we specifically said that if they couldn't decide on songs then they should just take turns picking songs. Singer 1 was just sitting there dumbfounded. So we said, ok, we don't need to do the whole list tonight. Each of you pick 12 songs, and we'll start with that.
So, each of them picked a handful that were definitely "their" songs (ones that both singers agree one did better than the other, or ones that one of them didn't want to sing so by default the other one did). Then it came time to do the drafting. Singer 1 picks a song. Singer 2 picks a song, and singer 1 spends about 5 minutes complaining that singer 2 picked that song. Finally singer 1 picks another song. Singer 2 picks a song and singer 1 spends about 5 minutes complaining that he won't get that song. This continues until they each have 12 songs, and the Jack Daniels bottle is empty.
Now we're finally going to practice. Singer 1 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 turns down the volume on the mic before handing it to singer 1. Singer 1 complains about that, implying that singer 2 is trying to sabotage him. Singer 1 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 turns down the volume on the mic before handing it to singer 1. Singer 1 complains about that, implying that singer 2 is trying to sabotage him. After a couple more cycles of this, singer 2 gets really angry and points out that he's just taking care of the equipment (which is not theirs but belongs to the guitarist), and that loud popping can blow a speaker, and that singer 1 is ignorant if he doesn't understand that.
Tangent: while playing with just singer 2 I realize that for the most part I'm not happy with him as a lead man. I think his singing is just ok, and that he's not really lead singer material. I'm not relishing the thought of playing a whole set where he's the lead.
The word "ignorant" was deeply offensive to singer 1. Then begins a circular argument of singer 1 saying: singer 2 is wrong, there's no popping, and calling him ignorant was really disrespectful...singer 2 saying: there is popping, he's doing the right thing in protecting the guitarist's equipment, but not saying anything about the "ignorant" comment. After that goes on for awhile, singer 1 says, "I'll see you next week", and leaves. I decide I'm ready to leave, too, so the rest of us pack up and leave. On the way out the three of us comment on how singer 1 is a bit hypocritical as he's talked so disrespectfully to singer 2 in the past, but the first time it's done to him he flips out.
On the way home, I call the guitarist to fill him in on what went down. We decide singer 1 needs a day or two to cool down, and then we'd call him. I also find out that singer 2 has been calling the guitarist every few days just to chat, and they are starting to develop a friendship. After I get off of the phone with the guitarist, the guitarist sends me a text saying (effectively) "To be clear, I'm going to call singer 1 and give him an ultimatum - split the songs 50/50 or take a hike." I tell him that an ultimatum is a bad idea, and that he should just call singer 1 and hear his side of it. The guitarist doesn't see the point in that, as it's pretty clear what singer 1's side is, that he wants to be the only singer. He suggests that the 3 of us (the guitarist, the drummer, and me) meet to discuss things after he talks to singer 1. I suggest the 3 of us meet before we make a call to singer 1. He agrees, and we loop the drummer in and make plans to meet on Tuesday at the guitarist's house. I then get a text from the drummer telling me that he and singer 2 won't be drinking at practice any more.
I plan to go into the meeting tonight, listen to what the other two have to say, and then proceed with the following. From the beginning I've been treating this band like a business, and I'm looking at this from a business perspective and nothing is personal. As such, I see the following as the only two realistic solutions.
1: The last time the band was all on the same page was before singer 2 joined. I suggest we roll back to that iteration, and get rid of singer 2. We then talk with singer 1, and tell him that if he wants to continue as the singer of the band, he has to start doing a better job of getting the lyrics memorized so that he's keeping up with the rest of us. Also will mention that when we make band decisions, we'll probably have him verbalize how he interprets it, as we seem to be having communication issues.
2: Get rid of both singers and look for a new singer. Singer 2 was brought on board as backup, and I was fine with that. If singer 2 auditioned for the lead spot today, I would vote no, so I don't want to keep him as the lead. Singer 1 seems to have a lot of drama attached to him, and while he's a great front man, it's not worth the price. We now have a better idea of what our band goals are, and it will be easier to communicate them to potential new singers.
If you read all of that, thank you. Are there other options that I am overlooking? Do you have any suggestions?
==================================================
UPDATE IN POST #71.
Had the band meeting tonight with the guitarist, the drummer, and me. Unfortunately, it went as I predicted. We talked about the current situation, and how it's not working. The guitarist brought up how he can see things from singer 1's point of view: that we added a guy as backup and now he's having to share everything 50/50 with him. We talked about the pros and cons of each singer. In the end, the drummer unsurprisingly said he has to stick by his best friend (singer 2), and his logic was that he thinks he's the better singer of the two, and that he has a lot of potential to be so much more. The guitarist also thinks that singer 2 is the better singer, and mentioned how he had become friends with him, while singer 1 is not really in contact with him and so they don't have that type of relationship. They both felt that of the two, singer 2 was the more professional. Both the drummer and guitarist were fine with getting rid of singer 1 and keeping singer 2.
I gave my two options, either keep singer 1 or get rid of both singers and look for a new one (with me preferring the latter option). When pressed, I said that it's not personal, but I just don't want to be in a band where singer 2 is the lead singer. If we were auditioning singers today, he would not get my vote. I let the drummer and guitarist know that this is completely a business decision for me, and if I leave the band it's not under bad terms, and I would love to pursue future projects with them (which I absolutely would, they're fantastic). I also said that the core of the 3 of us was very good, and we should get a singer to match.
The drummer tried to convince me that singer 2 has potential and with time I will see it. I mentioned that I don't want to take on a project that may or may not pan out. The guitarist was against getting rid of singer 2, because he didn't want to be without a singer, as that would be a step back and rehearsal wouldn't be productive. He suggested that we keep singer 2, while I look for a replacement. I said I'm not going to string anyone along and tell them "you can play with us now, but we're looking to replace you". Plus, I'm guessing that whoever I find won't be good enough for the drummer to boot his best friend.
With that impasse, I wished them well. I agreed to take a couple of days to think about it, but I really don't see me changing my mind.
==================================================
UPDATE #2 IN POST #157.
Quit the band Tuesday night. Wednesday was mulling over what to do. Checked Craigslist and found this:
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/muc/...900272576.html
---------------------
90s, 00s, Classic, Nu, Metal Cover Band. Buffalo/Charleston.
Looking for Bass player for pro cover band. All pro band, just missing low end of the rhythm section - we have Singer/Guitar, Guitar, Drums.
We have multiple practice spaces but the main one is set up for video. We want to record a demo within weeks of getting together for better gigs. Speaking of, we can get paying gigs but we want better paying gigs.
That being said, we are daytime job type guys, all with families. We all hang out, are friends, and BBQ all summer long. No one has drama, substance problems, or are bums but we aren't pussies and we do party. No ####, we're musicians.
Setlist pictures attached but we are open to similar music. If you're on the fence, send me a message and I'll record and send you over a short video of just myself to see if you like my style. I'm the singer and I shred.
The Setlist picture has:
Main In The Box
BrainStew
Slither
Cumbersome
Crackerman
Low
Machine Head
Kryptonite
The Red
Loser
The Middle
Hey Man Nice Shot
Keep Away
So Cold
I alone
Bound For The Floor
Nutshell
Creep
Change (in the house of flies)
She Sells Sanctuary
Bullet with Butterfly Wings
Sober
---------------------
So basically the songs I was already playing. I showed up and they seemed to have their act together. They have played out before and have contacts. With me on board they think we can be playing out in 1 month. I like that. So Thusday night I joined a new band.
Background: I'm in a 90s hard rock cover band that consists of 2 singers, a guitarist, a drummer, and myself. It's my 1st real band (other than playing at church). None of us really have much (if any) experience in being in a band that plays gigs.
There was a blow-up between the two singers this past Sunday. The guitarist, drummer, and myself are going to meet tonight to discuss. I have a strong feeling that this will be the end of the band.
Here's the soap opera details. At one point the band consisted of the drummer, the guitarist, and myself practicing on Sunday nights in the drummer's garage. Then we added singer 1. After jamming with singer 1, we talked about adding another person that could do backup singing, backup guitars, and backup keyboards...just fill the spots that are needed. The drummer suggested his best friend. So, singer 2 came in and practiced with the band. On his own I thought he was an ok singer, but when the two of them sang together, I thought is sounded really powerful. The drummer and the guitarist agreed.
So then starts the experiment of trying to get the two of them to sing together. Singer 2 was all for it. Singer 1 hated it. Singer 1 said he wanted to hear a recording of it before he would completely agree to it. Singer 1 never seems to be able to get along with singer 2. In situations where we'd joke with each other, if singer 2 said something about singer 1, singer 1 would take it super personal and get angry and nasty. I blame myself for not trying to put a stop to this/saying something. Singer 2 seemed to just ignore it, so rather than confront singer 1 about his behavior, I thought it was growing pains and it would get better. Sometimes when it got too heated, one of us would speak up, but we never really addressed it properly. After time the aggressive nastiness seemed to go away, and was replaced with the occasional snippy comment.
We started getting more songs down, with the weak link being singer 1 still needing to read some of the song lyrics on his phone (not having them memorized at the pace of the rest of us). We moved from practicing in the drummer's garage to having our own rehearsal studio ($300 a month split amongst the band). Pretty much from the beginning of being in the studio, singer 2 would come to practice with alcohol. At first I thought it was just because he was excited we were in our own studio, but then noticed it became a habit. At one practice, he was very obnoxious and disruptive, to the point that the drummer (his best friend) was calling him out on his behavior. He apologized at the next practice, and I thought we all moved on.
We went to an open mic night and recorded it (), and things seemed to be progressing well. Then the next practice after that open mic night, singer 1 states that he doesn't like the two lead singer format. He said he listened to the video a lot, and he's just not a fan of it. So the 5 of us discussed it, and decided that we'd pretty much split our song list in half, and each of the singers would take turns being on stage (singer 1 gets set 1, singer 2 gets set 2, singer 1 gets set 3, singer 2 gets set 4). We decided that the two singers could decide that in the coming week, and that we'd just practice songs as normal for the rest of rehearsal. The last comment on the picking of songs was, if there's a disagreement on who sings what, then they each take turns picking songs.
So that brings us to this past Sunday. The guitarist wasn't there, as his wife just had a baby. I knew the two singers would not have communicated during the week, so I brought two list printouts and two pens. The four of us arrive, and singer 2 shows off a small bottle of Jack Daniels. He offers some to the rest of us. Singer 1 and myself decline. The drummer has a little bit. Then the singers are both "now what?". I hand them the pens and paper, tell them to go outside and figure it out. The drummer and I start practicing, but about 15 minutes later the singers are back. There's confusion. Singer 1 has chosen 2/3 of the songs. What? Oh, he was on a completely different page from the rest of us. The whole split the song list in half just went over his head. He brought up how singer 2 was invited into the band on the premise of backup singing, backup guitar, keyboard, and how that never happened. How it just became "he's a lead singer, too". Singer 1 said he was still processing this. The drummer and I talked about what was discussed at the previous practice, how we specifically said that if they couldn't decide on songs then they should just take turns picking songs. Singer 1 was just sitting there dumbfounded. So we said, ok, we don't need to do the whole list tonight. Each of you pick 12 songs, and we'll start with that.
So, each of them picked a handful that were definitely "their" songs (ones that both singers agree one did better than the other, or ones that one of them didn't want to sing so by default the other one did). Then it came time to do the drafting. Singer 1 picks a song. Singer 2 picks a song, and singer 1 spends about 5 minutes complaining that singer 2 picked that song. Finally singer 1 picks another song. Singer 2 picks a song and singer 1 spends about 5 minutes complaining that he won't get that song. This continues until they each have 12 songs, and the Jack Daniels bottle is empty.
Now we're finally going to practice. Singer 1 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 turns down the volume on the mic before handing it to singer 1. Singer 1 complains about that, implying that singer 2 is trying to sabotage him. Singer 1 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 picks a song, and we play it. Singer 2 turns down the volume on the mic before handing it to singer 1. Singer 1 complains about that, implying that singer 2 is trying to sabotage him. After a couple more cycles of this, singer 2 gets really angry and points out that he's just taking care of the equipment (which is not theirs but belongs to the guitarist), and that loud popping can blow a speaker, and that singer 1 is ignorant if he doesn't understand that.
Tangent: while playing with just singer 2 I realize that for the most part I'm not happy with him as a lead man. I think his singing is just ok, and that he's not really lead singer material. I'm not relishing the thought of playing a whole set where he's the lead.
The word "ignorant" was deeply offensive to singer 1. Then begins a circular argument of singer 1 saying: singer 2 is wrong, there's no popping, and calling him ignorant was really disrespectful...singer 2 saying: there is popping, he's doing the right thing in protecting the guitarist's equipment, but not saying anything about the "ignorant" comment. After that goes on for awhile, singer 1 says, "I'll see you next week", and leaves. I decide I'm ready to leave, too, so the rest of us pack up and leave. On the way out the three of us comment on how singer 1 is a bit hypocritical as he's talked so disrespectfully to singer 2 in the past, but the first time it's done to him he flips out.
On the way home, I call the guitarist to fill him in on what went down. We decide singer 1 needs a day or two to cool down, and then we'd call him. I also find out that singer 2 has been calling the guitarist every few days just to chat, and they are starting to develop a friendship. After I get off of the phone with the guitarist, the guitarist sends me a text saying (effectively) "To be clear, I'm going to call singer 1 and give him an ultimatum - split the songs 50/50 or take a hike." I tell him that an ultimatum is a bad idea, and that he should just call singer 1 and hear his side of it. The guitarist doesn't see the point in that, as it's pretty clear what singer 1's side is, that he wants to be the only singer. He suggests that the 3 of us (the guitarist, the drummer, and me) meet to discuss things after he talks to singer 1. I suggest the 3 of us meet before we make a call to singer 1. He agrees, and we loop the drummer in and make plans to meet on Tuesday at the guitarist's house. I then get a text from the drummer telling me that he and singer 2 won't be drinking at practice any more.
I plan to go into the meeting tonight, listen to what the other two have to say, and then proceed with the following. From the beginning I've been treating this band like a business, and I'm looking at this from a business perspective and nothing is personal. As such, I see the following as the only two realistic solutions.
1: The last time the band was all on the same page was before singer 2 joined. I suggest we roll back to that iteration, and get rid of singer 2. We then talk with singer 1, and tell him that if he wants to continue as the singer of the band, he has to start doing a better job of getting the lyrics memorized so that he's keeping up with the rest of us. Also will mention that when we make band decisions, we'll probably have him verbalize how he interprets it, as we seem to be having communication issues.
2: Get rid of both singers and look for a new singer. Singer 2 was brought on board as backup, and I was fine with that. If singer 2 auditioned for the lead spot today, I would vote no, so I don't want to keep him as the lead. Singer 1 seems to have a lot of drama attached to him, and while he's a great front man, it's not worth the price. We now have a better idea of what our band goals are, and it will be easier to communicate them to potential new singers.
If you read all of that, thank you. Are there other options that I am overlooking? Do you have any suggestions?
==================================================
UPDATE IN POST #71.
Had the band meeting tonight with the guitarist, the drummer, and me. Unfortunately, it went as I predicted. We talked about the current situation, and how it's not working. The guitarist brought up how he can see things from singer 1's point of view: that we added a guy as backup and now he's having to share everything 50/50 with him. We talked about the pros and cons of each singer. In the end, the drummer unsurprisingly said he has to stick by his best friend (singer 2), and his logic was that he thinks he's the better singer of the two, and that he has a lot of potential to be so much more. The guitarist also thinks that singer 2 is the better singer, and mentioned how he had become friends with him, while singer 1 is not really in contact with him and so they don't have that type of relationship. They both felt that of the two, singer 2 was the more professional. Both the drummer and guitarist were fine with getting rid of singer 1 and keeping singer 2.
I gave my two options, either keep singer 1 or get rid of both singers and look for a new one (with me preferring the latter option). When pressed, I said that it's not personal, but I just don't want to be in a band where singer 2 is the lead singer. If we were auditioning singers today, he would not get my vote. I let the drummer and guitarist know that this is completely a business decision for me, and if I leave the band it's not under bad terms, and I would love to pursue future projects with them (which I absolutely would, they're fantastic). I also said that the core of the 3 of us was very good, and we should get a singer to match.
The drummer tried to convince me that singer 2 has potential and with time I will see it. I mentioned that I don't want to take on a project that may or may not pan out. The guitarist was against getting rid of singer 2, because he didn't want to be without a singer, as that would be a step back and rehearsal wouldn't be productive. He suggested that we keep singer 2, while I look for a replacement. I said I'm not going to string anyone along and tell them "you can play with us now, but we're looking to replace you". Plus, I'm guessing that whoever I find won't be good enough for the drummer to boot his best friend.
With that impasse, I wished them well. I agreed to take a couple of days to think about it, but I really don't see me changing my mind.
==================================================
UPDATE #2 IN POST #157.
Quit the band Tuesday night. Wednesday was mulling over what to do. Checked Craigslist and found this:
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/muc/...900272576.html
---------------------
90s, 00s, Classic, Nu, Metal Cover Band. Buffalo/Charleston.
Looking for Bass player for pro cover band. All pro band, just missing low end of the rhythm section - we have Singer/Guitar, Guitar, Drums.
We have multiple practice spaces but the main one is set up for video. We want to record a demo within weeks of getting together for better gigs. Speaking of, we can get paying gigs but we want better paying gigs.
That being said, we are daytime job type guys, all with families. We all hang out, are friends, and BBQ all summer long. No one has drama, substance problems, or are bums but we aren't pussies and we do party. No ####, we're musicians.
Setlist pictures attached but we are open to similar music. If you're on the fence, send me a message and I'll record and send you over a short video of just myself to see if you like my style. I'm the singer and I shred.
The Setlist picture has:
Main In The Box
BrainStew
Slither
Cumbersome
Crackerman
Low
Machine Head
Kryptonite
The Red
Loser
The Middle
Hey Man Nice Shot
Keep Away
So Cold
I alone
Bound For The Floor
Nutshell
Creep
Change (in the house of flies)
She Sells Sanctuary
Bullet with Butterfly Wings
Sober
---------------------
So basically the songs I was already playing. I showed up and they seemed to have their act together. They have played out before and have contacts. With me on board they think we can be playing out in 1 month. I like that. So Thusday night I joined a new band.
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