Managing tone when playing live

R

reznet

Sep 30, 2018
3
3
4,531
#1
Hi everyone! New to the forums, getting back into playing bass after taking a break. Also starting to play live for the first time after just playing at home or jamming at friends' houses. I like to play a little bit of everything, but my favorite styles to play would be Motown and Disco.

Right now I have a Fender Rumble 40 which is great for practicing at home, but I recently used it at a bar and found that I had to turn it all the way up, and even then the bass sounded like a triangle wave - just low like if you were humming. Halfway through the night, I realized I could turn up the treble EQ and that seemed to help a little bit. The amp has XLR out that went to FOH, but the XLR is post pre-amp, so was affected by me turning the treble EQ. Did I mess up the sound guy's mix? I think I understand that sound guys like to go direct from the amp so they can EQ the signal to the room while I can EQ the amp so I can hear myself, but if we're sharing the same signal, then I can mess with what he's setup. Is this why you use a sansamp? so you can have you normal tone dialed in, send it to FOH, but still EQ their amp so you can hear your normal tone in whatever room you're playing in?

I think I have two issues I'm trying to learn from after this weekend: volume and tone. For volume, I think my only option is a larger amp. For tone, though, I don't know if I should invest in pedals like a sansamp, an onboard EQ, and find a bass amp that is neutral; or shop around for a larger amp that has the tone I want (and I realize I'm still trying to learn what tone I want). For example, my friend brought over his MarkBass CMD 121H and I compared it with my Fender Rumble 40. With all EQ settings at noon, and the MarkBass's VLE and VPH turned off, the MarkBass sounded much much deeper. So, if I wanted the MarkBass tone, should I get that amp, or could I get that sound with any amp if I had the right EQ tools?
 
#2
simply: once the FOH guy gets your signal.. it's under their control. Out of your hands, so don't worry about it..
Worry about how you sound on stage and that you are comfortable with that.
Don't stress out over what you can't control.
 
#3
That...

As far as a stage amp goes. look used ... CL is your friend.

a couple of 1x12or 1x15 cabs and a GK 400 RB might be it... you can go nuts on amplification but... many place have PA and subs and your rig is a monitor...

If you are going to do the under PA equipped back yard. Loud party thing then you need more. Make it a 700 RB-II or 1001 RB -II .. plus ear plugs and try like heck not to go there. It is so much more fun when you can hear yourself think and let the PA do the heavy lifting. I do not miss my ears ringing at the end of a night at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: s0c9
#4
reznet said:
Hi everyone! New to the forums, getting back into playing bass after taking a break. Also starting to play live for the first time after just playing at home or jamming at friends' houses. I like to play a little bit of everything, but my favorite styles to play would be Motown and Disco.

Right now I have a Fender Rumble 40 which is great for practicing at home, but I recently used it at a bar and found that I had to turn it all the way up, and even then the bass sounded like a triangle wave - just low like if you were humming. Halfway through the night, I realized I could turn up the treble EQ and that seemed to help a little bit. The amp has XLR out that went to FOH, but the XLR is post pre-amp, so was affected by me turning the treble EQ. Did I mess up the sound guy's mix? I think I understand that sound guys like to go direct from the amp so they can EQ the signal to the room while I can EQ the amp so I can hear myself, but if we're sharing the same signal, then I can mess with what he's setup. Is this why you use a sansamp? so you can have you normal tone dialed in, send it to FOH, but still EQ their amp so you can hear your normal tone in whatever room you're playing in?

I think I have two issues I'm trying to learn from after this weekend: volume and tone. For volume, I think my only option is a larger amp. For tone, though, I don't know if I should invest in pedals like a sansamp, an onboard EQ, and find a bass amp that is neutral; or shop around for a larger amp that has the tone I want (and I realize I'm still trying to learn what tone I want). For example, my friend brought over his MarkBass CMD 121H and I compared it with my Fender Rumble 40. With all EQ settings at noon, and the MarkBass's VLE and VPH turned off, the MarkBass sounded much much deeper. So, if I wanted the MarkBass tone, should I get that amp, or could I get that sound with any amp if I had the right EQ tools?
Click to expand...
Welcome to Talkbass ! Glad you're on board?

If your buy a new rig, what would be your budget?

For your R40, I suggest getting up on a stand, closer to ear level. Since you're in FOH, it's your personal monitor. I would not turn it up all the way in the future because Motown never included a fuzz bass. :)

Try it with the gain to 9 o'clock(oc), vol 3oc, bass 9oc, treble 12oc, low mid 12oc, high mid 12oc, vintage contour on.

I would try other amps before choosing a new one.

What bass do you use?
What other instruments in the band?
 
#5
I also played a bar gig on my rumble 40 this weekend. I put it on a chair and directed the speaker at the drummer and me. Then I connected the XLR out from the amp to the FOH. Everything went great. In fact, the bass on the stage was so loud I had to make sure I'm not runing the FOH mix (I wasn't). The volume knob was somewhere between 1 and 2 o'clock.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoCal80s
#6
Regarding your question, yes, you probably made an inconvenience for the sound guy. But they most likely noticed the bass became a bit trebly and adjusted the EQ on the console (unless they just set it up and went drinking).
In a perfect setting, you'd perform a soundcheck first - play a section of a song, make sure the band and the audience can hear everything clearly, adjust settings and repeat if needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrodbert696
#8
If you're trying to punch through a mix while underpowered, the mids are really your best friend. But too much of them can sound "honky." If the DI out is post-EQ, then yes, you can annoy the sound guy making changes on stage, but he's got his own EQ controls and should be able to compensate, as long as you're not killing any frequencies totally (he can't boost what's not there).

Yes, you can get a preamp/DI if you want to keep using your existing amp and give the FOH a cleaner signal. Sansamp works, or check out the MXR M-80 for a reasonably priced alternative. There's also the Ampeg SCR-DI, the Tech21 VT bass, and others.

Or get a beefier amp. I'm using a GK MB-210 combo these days. It's loud enough on its own for most bar/club/party settings, and its DI gives you a pre- or post-option for FOH. 200+ watts through a 2x10 or 1x15 usually suffices.
 
#9
Thanks for the replies and the warm welcome!

In this particular case, the stage didn't have any monitors. It's a pretty small bar that hosts local bands but just has speakers that face the audience. So our only monitors were our own speakers. I don't think anyone got a full band soundcheck, just individual instruments really briefly.

I'm glad to know I probably didn't ruin the sound guy's day. I have a tendency to worry too much about inconveniencing others, so it's helpful to get a dose of reality sent my way :) Along the same lines, I'm trying to be more comfortable with playing louder. Not necessarily loud, but loud enough, especially as a bass player playing a supporting role for the rest of the band. Even at home (in a house), playing at a modest volume, I'll worry that my neighbors can hear me (they can't) and are annoyed with me (they aren't). I know it's not a bass guitar specific problem, though it's more pronounced knowing I'm capable of making very loud sounds being amplified.

I'm in Seattle, and have been lucky to meet quite a few great friendly musicians to play with.

For a long time, I had been eyeing the TC Electronic RH450 after seeing MarloweDK use them in his youtube channel. They looked really cool and got good reviews, but I was hesitant to spend that much. But I realized it's what I really wanted to try for a while, and I could afford it, so tonight I finally allowed myself to get one after finding a set of RS210's at the local GC. I picked up one of them tonight (might go back for the other speaker someday but I know I don't need it AND I can't fit both of them in my car at the same time) and found a used RH450 on eBay and pulled the trigger. Probably (definitely) still overkill for what I need, but I think I'll have fun with them and learn from them for whatever I get next. And since buying used, hopefully won't lose much if I decide I don't like them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ak56 and craigie
#10
reznet said:
Thanks for the replies and the warm welcome!

In this particular case, the stage didn't have any monitors. It's a pretty small bar that hosts local bands but just has speakers that face the audience. So our only monitors were our own speakers. I don't think anyone got a full band soundcheck, just individual instruments really briefly.

I'm glad to know I probably didn't ruin the sound guy's day. I have a tendency to worry too much about inconveniencing others, so it's helpful to get a dose of reality sent my way :) Along the same lines, I'm trying to be more comfortable with playing louder. Not necessarily loud, but loud enough, especially as a bass player playing a supporting role for the rest of the band. Even at home (in a house), playing at a modest volume, I'll worry that my neighbors can hear me (they can't) and are annoyed with me (they aren't). I know it's not a bass guitar specific problem, though it's more pronounced knowing I'm capable of making very loud sounds being amplified.

I'm in Seattle, and have been lucky to meet quite a few great friendly musicians to play with.

For a long time, I had been eyeing the TC Electronic RH450 after seeing MarloweDK use them in his youtube channel. They looked really cool and got good reviews, but I was hesitant to spend that much. But I realized it's what I really wanted to try for a while, and I could afford it, so tonight I finally allowed myself to get one after finding a set of RS210's at the local GC. I picked up one of them tonight (might go back for the other speaker someday but I know I don't need it AND I can't fit both of them in my car at the same time) and found a used RH450 on eBay and pulled the trigger. Probably (definitely) still overkill for what I need, but I think I'll have fun with them and learn from them for whatever I get next. And since buying used, hopefully won't lose much if I decide I don't like them.
Click to expand...

I have an RH450 and RS210 and love them! You have chosen wisely. I used to prefer my eden D212 as a cab but now only use the RS210. I like it best with the tweeter fully off. I find the DI is fantastic. I put the cab up on a chair vertically or on a table horizontally. I use IEM’s anyway so the cab is more for my bandmates who don’t use IEM’s.

Congrats!
 
  • Like
Reactions: reznet
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back