Markbass front or rear port?

[xhawk5]

Hi all. I have a fantastic Markbass Little Mark Tube 800 and I'm pushing a 2x15 and a 1x15 8ohm cabs at rehearsal. Getting ready to hit the gig circuit and I'm not lugging those 15's around, plus they get some distortion, which is really not that bad and they sound great.
I used to lug my Peavey BAM 210 combo with a 210 extension cab but I'm a lot older now and and am considering going with the lightweight Markbass: 410 alone / 210 & 115 / 410 & 210.
I've always believed that more 10's equal more air being pushed. (I could be wrong).
I'm also considering the tried and true 210p/115p.

My question to you is should I consider front ported OR rear ported. The venues will vary from small to med size. Probably no more than 100 ppl at any one time and if it gets larger, during Bike Week, I'll always have the PA for support.
So this is mainly for smaller venues and stage volume/tone.
Hit your preference in the poll and say hello with why you chose front or rear if you want.
Thanks bass brothers!

 

[PhatBasstard]

I use 100% Markbass. A 104HF has been my mainstay. When I've used a second cab with it I've used/owned all of the following with it:
102HF, 102P, 104HR, 115HR and a recently scammed 2nd, like new, 104HF (GC online, even though it was at a local location, had it marked as a used 115HR at $350!? Got there and there was no 115HR. Just this. Gotta' love GC online.)

Anyway I find I much prefer the tighter, punchier and more immediate sound of the HF (front ported) cabs. Using the two 104HF cabs together has been, by far, the best sound combination. With one 104HF and the 102HF together being the 2nd best over all the other combinations.

 

[xhawk5]

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for in an answer. Appreciate the effort.

 

[Sparky Mark]

I don't understand how a 210 and 410 can work well together? If both cabs are 8 ohms then unless you are bi-amping, each cab will take 50% of the amp's output. So each speaker in the 210 will get 25% of the amp's output and 12.5% each in the 410. It just seems like you could overdrive the 210 before the 410 breaks a sweat. Two std102hf would be my choice. I only sold my std104hf because it was too big for most of my gigs and my latest car.

 

[xhawk5]

I don't understand how a 210 and 410 can work well together? If both cabs are 8 ohms then unless you are bi-amping, each cab will take 50% of the amp's output. So each speaker in the 210 will get 25% of the amp's output and 12.5% each in the 410. It just seems like you could overdrive the 210 before the 410 breaks a sweat. Two std102hf would be my choice. I only sold my std104hf because it was too big for most of my gigs and my latest car.

Hmmm. I never thought of it like that. In my current rehearsal setup, the 215 is pushing the same volume as the 115, maybe taking on more. It seems like the dominate cab.
In that respect, your statement is invalid maybe? (No offense, just thinking)... Good post, thanks!

 

[Kro]

Hmmm. I never thought of it like that. In my current rehearsal setup, the 215 is pushing the same volume as the 115, maybe taking on more. It seems like the dominate cab.
In that respect, your statement is invalid maybe? (No offense, just thinking)... Good post, thanks!

The fact that your TWO 15 is pushing the same volume as your ONE 15 - and maybe is dominant, actually validates his point. You're splitting your wattage evenly between the two cabs, and again between the speakers in your 215 - just each of the speakers in the 215 are only working half has hard to put out the same volume as the single speaker in the 115 at any given volume level.

Something to keep in mind as this type of imbalance has the potential to ruin drivers if you're not careful (speaking from both theory and personal experience here). An overworked 115 in a 215+115 combination could potentially be the reason why you mention you get some distortion with that setup - if that sound is coming from your speakers, it's a warning sign.

 

[PhatBasstard]

I don't understand how a 210 and 410 can work well together? If both cabs are 8 ohms then unless you are bi-amping, each cab will take 50% of the amp's output. So each speaker in the 210 will get 25% of the amp's output and 12.5% each in the 410. It just seems like you could overdrive the 210 before the 410 breaks a sweat. Two std102hf would be my choice. I only sold my std104hf because it was too big for most of my gigs and my latest car.

FWIW, this is absolutely true.
Both 2x10 cabs were more for experimenting with the 2x10 + 1x15 combination that I'd seen so many Markbass users using. Pairing either 2x10 with one of the 4x10's was purely for experimentation and would never be used in a high volume situation where the 2x10 might be overworked compared to the linked 4x10.

 

[Sparky Mark]

[/QU0TE] No offense, just thinking [/QUOTE]

None taken. I have owned plenty of 112 Markbass cabs as well as the std104hf and am one of those who like their punchy mid rich presentation. I haven't had experience with their 15 cabs and there may be a tonal difference with the larger cones. I have reduced the size of my Markbass rig to a LM3 with two NY121P cabs which will handle my small and medium sized gigs. The NY121P is my perfect Markbass cab; not too large and in pairs can match a lot of 410's. I have played a rear ported Markbass 410 in a store (where Markbass never shines IME) and much preferred the larger HF sound which was deeper and bigger. If I was looking for a loud, easy carry, flexible Markbass rig it would be based around two std102hf cabs.

 

[BassmanPaul]

in actuality front or rear ports doesn’t make much if any difference. As long as the rear ported cabinet has some “breathing” room behind, a few inches, it’s pretty much immaterial.

 

[PhatBasstard]

in actuality front or rear ports doesn’t make much if any difference. As long as the rear ported cabinet has some “breathing” room behind, a few inches, it’s pretty much immaterial.

I see a lot of your posts and agree with most of them, but you're way off with that statement.

Oh, forgot to mention, the whole band agreed that the all front port arrangement sounded the best.
Personal preference? Yes. Difference? Absolutely.

1. The back wall surface acts as a big reflective baffle and will vary the spread of low frequencies wildly depending on distance, material and angle of the cab in relation. When I used any of the rear ported cabs, bass was wildly uneven depending on what part of the room you were in. Not so with all front ported.

2. If you're out doors and/or on a stage with a very distant or non-existent back wall, rear porting is near worthless for any reinforcement of your low end.

 

[Kro]

Wow....
I guess I'm clueless and did all that experimentation for nothing.

Oh, forgot to mention, the whole band agreed that the all front port arrangement sounded the best.
Personal preference? Yes. Difference? Absolutely.

Were those cabs identical aside from the ports? Correlation and causation and all that...

Nobody is saying that those cabs didn't sound different, but might it be possible you're attributing things to the port direction that might be due to other factors? Cab tuning immediately comes to mind given the pretty huge size difference between those cabs...

IME @BassmanPaul knows his stuff...

 

[Sparky Mark]

I think the main reason that the std104hf sounds better to me over the std104hr is due to the larger internal volume of the front ported cab. I don't think the port location has much to do with it.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Were those cabs identical aside from the ports? Correlation and causation and all that...

Nobody is saying that those cabs didn't sound different, but might it be possible you're attributing things to the port direction that might be due to other factors? Cab tuning immediately comes to mind given the pretty huge size difference between those cabs...

IME @BassmanPaul knows his stuff...

Yes he usually does.
But to address your part of the question:
Did you not comprehend my response?
All the front port/rear port changes were done using the same series of Markbass cabs.
The ports on the larger 104HF are not part of its internal volume (see post below). The ports make it "externally" bigger, but the internal volume is the same as the 104HR.
2x10 front ported vs. 2x10 rear ported. 4x10 front ported vs. 4x10 rear ported.
Plus, it was done on the same stages in the same clubs and concert halls.
How much more "all other things being equal" can you get.

I'm nearly 53. I've been doing music professionally, full time (often with name artists and celebrities) until recently, since age 13. I also do pro bass/guitar setups and electronics repair and pro audio work on the side. I'm a "techy" guy.
Yeah, he usually knows his stuff. But so do I.

 

[PhatBasstard]

I think the main reason that the std104hf sounds better to me over the std104hr is due to the larger internal volume of the front ported cab. I don't think the port location has much to do with it.

While there may be some truth to this (remember, I own both cabs), the baffle between the actual port area and internal volume area on the 104HF (both top and bottom) is so far back before the actual vent, it makes it essentially the same internal volume as the rear vented 104HR. Making no real difference in "internal volume" between the two boxes.

 

[Kro]

Did you not comprehend my response?

Let's just say that we'll agree to disagree here. It's obvious that there are differences in cab construction between the two that could lend themselves to one sounding differently than the other despite similar tuning and them using the same type and quantity of drivers.

Given my, albeit very limited compared to some here, understanding of how ports work, everything that I have learned does seem to reinforce the theory that audible differences from port direction are negligible - but as always I'm happy to be corrected.

I'm glad that you have firsthand experience with both cab versions, and I appreciate your observations on the differences between the two cabs regardless.

Namaste.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Given my, albeit very limited compared to some here, understanding of how ports work, everything that I have learned does seem to reinforce the theory that audible differences from port direction are negligible -

If that were true, why do you never see them on the side........?

Are you somehow under the notion that no sound emanates from them?
Do you think its nice and quiet behind those drivers?
Besides what the baffles route, some designers actually have tubular routing from the back of the drivers directly to front mounted ports specifically for this reason.
Of course it matters.

The bottom line is use what sounds good to you.
But don't tell me or anyone else there's no difference because YOU can't hear it.
Just say "I (you) can't hear it".

The OP asked a question.
I, owning and having more experience than probably 98% of people on this board with the EXACT product he asked about, answered it.

FWIW, I've owned or own, including a couple combos, 9 Markbass cabs in various configurations. All top series (yellow B&C drivers/no Blackline stuff). All Italian/no Asian made. When one of the nay-sayers gets close to my real world experience with this particular brand/product, then we'll talk.

 

[PhatBasstard]

To the OP:
One final thing.
The front ported cabs do tend to be more directional. Great when you're basically in the front of the cabs, but sometimes not so great immediately to the sides. If you're getting P.A. support, this probably isn't an issue.
However, if you're not getting PA support, the rear ported cabs tend to have a wider (if somewhat unpredictable depending on venue, stage, etc.) sound spread.

 

[Sparky Mark]

While there may be some truth to this (remember, I own both cabs), the baffle between the actual port area and internal volume area on the 104HF (both top and bottom) is so far back before the actual vent, it makes it essentially the same internal volume as the rear vented 104HR. Making no real difference in "internal volume" between the two boxes.

One of the variables that defines the tuning of a ported enclosure is the length and cross sectional area of the ports. Whilst the internal volume of the HF and HR is arguably similar the HF has twice the porting area of the HR. This is the reason the HF sounds bigger, because it has been tuned lower. Once again this has little to do with porting location.

 

[murphy]

I have owned both the front and rear ported 410 cabs....found the rear port cab lacking in lows compared to the front ported cab...which required less bass boost from the amp

 

[Kro]

If that were true, why do you never see them on the side........?

Are you somehow under the notion that no sound emanates from them?
Do you think its nice and quiet behind those drivers?
Besides what the baffles route, some designers actually have tubular routing from the back of the drivers directly to front mounted ports specifically for this reason.
Of course it matters.

The bottom line is use what sounds good to you.
But don't tell me or anyone else there's no difference because YOU can't hear it.
Just say "I (you) can't hear it".

The OP asked a question.
I, owning and having more experience than probably 98% of people on this board with the EXACT product he asked about, answered it.

FWIW, I've owned or own, including a couple combos, 9 Markbass cabs in various configurations. All top series (yellow B&C drivers/no Blackline stuff). All Italian/no Asian made. When one of the nay-sayers gets close to my real world experience with this particular brand/product, then we'll talk.

I'll say it one last time, I don't doubt the differences you're hearing between any of your cabs, only what's leading to them.

This article from Andy, of Acme Bass fame, might be a good reference for anybody interested in reading more from an expert on the port placement discussion.

Acme Sound LLC.

Oh, and about never seeing side ports - here, now you have.