Mesa Subway D800 v/s Aguilar TH 500

[thehangingmist]

Some one had to do it

Now that the subway D800's are out in the open can we draw some comparisons between them?

How do the voices and volume output compare?
I like that the retail price is the same but the watts are different.. One provides head phone and aux which are important for me but the other offers an fx loop with a 6db gain which is handy!

Am also very curious how the mesa 800 watts compare with the Aguilar 500 watts as I've come to understand it.. The standards set for number of "advertised" watts are very different for each company. But now that the option of this really promising subway amp is available ... There might be some more tone hammer 500's in the classifieds soon? And hopefully some subways too heheh

 

[nostatic]

Had the TH500 two different times (owned one, sold it, bought another one, sold it), have the D-800 now. Very different sounding amps set flat.

In my hands the TH500 tended to be compressed sounding, rolled-off pretty heavily in the treble range, and not a lot of headroom on the input stage. Midrange always had a bit of "hair." Plenty loud, but again, more towards the vintage and compressed side of things tonally.

D-800 has more headroom on the input stage, and is a much more "quick" amp - not "tubey" or compressed at all. Set flat is has a voice but is more open in the treble than the TH500. You can get some grit if you want.

I think the D-800 is a louder amp. The voicing knob goes from flat (or slightly mid-forward) to mid scooped, but not really a "modern" mid scoop but more towards an older-school mid scoop. Not my thing (either type of mid scoop) but there are some interesting sounds in the lower range of the knob.

In my hands, the TH500 was pretty much a one-trick pony - thicker, more vintage vibe. While you could radically eq to get different tones, I didn't really like any of those tones. And it did not have much extended range. It also is much more compressed than the D-800. I liked the TH500 for what I could get out of it, but in the end I wanted a bit more neutrality and open sound. The D-800 is somewhat close to the Tecamp Puma (I have a 500 that I have gigged for awhile) in that regard.

Very different amps imho - just depends on what you prefer.

 

[arai]

Had the TH500 two different times (owned one, sold it, bought another one, sold it), have the D-800 now. Very different sounding amps set flat.

In my hands the TH500 tended to be compressed sounding, rolled-off pretty heavily in the treble range, and not a lot of headroom on the input stage. Midrange always had a bit of "hair." Plenty loud, but again, more towards the vintage and compressed side of things tonally.

D-800 has more headroom on the input stage, and is a much more "quick" amp - not "tubey" or compressed at all. Set flat is has a voice but is more open in the treble than the TH500. You can get some grit if you want.

I think the D-800 is a louder amp. The voicing knob goes from flat (or slightly mid-forward) to mid scooped, but not really a "modern" mid scoop but more towards an older-school mid scoop. Not my thing (either type of mid scoop) but there are some interesting sounds in the lower range of the knob.

In my hands, the TH500 was pretty much a one-trick pony - thicker, more vintage vibe. While you could radically eq to get different tones, I didn't really like any of those tones. And it did not have much extended range. It also is much more compressed than the D-800. I liked the TH500 for what I could get out of it, but in the end I wanted a bit more neutrality and open sound. The D-800 is somewhat close to the Tecamp Puma (I have a 500 that I have gigged for awhile) in that regard.

Very different amps imho - just depends on what you prefer.

would you say the th500 sounds compressed?

 

[nostatic]

would you say the th500 sounds compressed?

I might have said it 3x

 

[thehangingmist]

Had the TH500 two different times (owned one, sold it, bought another one, sold it), have the D-800 now. Very different sounding amps set flat.

In my hands the TH500 tended to be compressed sounding, rolled-off pretty heavily in the treble range, and not a lot of headroom on the input stage. Midrange always had a bit of "hair." Plenty loud, but again, more towards the vintage and compressed side of things tonally.

D-800 has more headroom on the input stage, and is a much more "quick" amp - not "tubey" or compressed at all. Set flat is has a voice but is more open in the treble than the TH500. You can get some grit if you want.

I think the D-800 is a louder amp. The voicing knob goes from flat (or slightly mid-forward) to mid scooped, but not really a "modern" mid scoop but more towards an older-school mid scoop. Not my thing (either type of mid scoop) but there are some interesting sounds in the lower range of the knob.

In my hands, the TH500 was pretty much a one-trick pony - thicker, more vintage vibe. While you could radically eq to get different tones, I didn't really like any of those tones. And it did not have much extended range. It also is much more compressed than the D-800. I liked the TH500 for what I could get out of it, but in the end I wanted a bit more neutrality and open sound. The D-800 is somewhat close to the Tecamp Puma (I have a 500 that I have gigged for awhile) in that regard.

Very different amps imho - just depends on what you prefer.

Very cool! Thank you for writing a comparison!

 

[nostatic]

Very cool! Thank you for writing a comparison!

If you look in the D-800 thread, I compare the D-800, Puma 500, and Monique/M700, both DI and mic'd. Of those, Monique is towards the TH500 vibe, though I think the TH500 is...wait for it...more compressed.

 

[thehangingmist]

If you look in the D-800 thread, I compare the D-800, Puma 500, and Monique/M700, both DI and mic'd. Of those, Monique is towards the TH500 vibe, though I think the TH500 is...wait for it...more compressed.

Am sure Compressed doesn't always mean bad though! I played a through Aguilar tone hammer head and to my ears it sounded better than all the other heads in the room in that bass specific store which had some other cool ones that I don't clearly remember but there were EA amps, epiphani etc just my ears maybe

But can you link to that post if possible? I already like how the D800 is described against the tone hammer. Am glad I am now looking at getting a rig in a few months from now as opposed to a few months back from now

 

[nostatic]

Compressed is not bad at all...unless you're going for an open sound. And the TH500 is dead-nuts perfect for certain applications. For instance if I was doing a classic rock or blues gig with a P-bass, the TH500 is pretty much magic. If I'm doing a jazz gig where I'm comping as well as doing intricate lines - less so.

Clips start here: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mesa-boogie-subway®-d-800.1172421/page-68#post-17921426

A few pages later I do some variations mic'd.

 

[thehangingmist]

Compressed is not bad at all...unless you're going for an open sound. And the TH500 is dead-nuts perfect for certain applications. For instance if I was doing a classic rock or blues gig with a P-bass, the TH500 is pretty much magic. If I'm doing a jazz gig where I'm comping as well as doing intricate lines - less so.

Clips start here: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mesa-boogie-subway®-d-800.1172421/page-68#post-17921426

A few pages later I do some variations mic'd.

awesome! i hope the subway line takes off and we see subway 500 and 1200 as well

 

[hennessybass]

I've been using a TH500 pretty steady for a good long while, and a TH350 before that. Berg CN212 as my "big cab", and either a GB Bassic 15 or Berg CN210 as my "small cab".

After a (long story I'm not going to go into)... I just got a D800 last Thursday.

In my hands the TH500 tended to be compressed sounding, rolled-off pretty heavily in the treble range, and not a lot of headroom on the input stage. Midrange always had a bit of "hair." Plenty loud, but again, more towards the vintage and compressed side of things tonally.

I agree, but would have never used the term "compressed" to describe the TH... but that language really has me thinking. It really does have a feel like a tube amp compressing when you are pushing the amp, and digging in on the bass. Sometimes that characteristic can it can be a little much for me on the TH500, which partly set me on the path to getting the D800...

The gain on the input stage is maybe the most noticeable big difference in the two amps. I have always kept the gain very low on the TH. Usually in the zero to 11:00 range. Past that, you start getting some pretty good breakup in your sound and you can take it all the way to fuzz territory if you really crank it and get the "Drive" knob involved. I pretty much had to get the D800 up in the 3:00+ range to start getting OD in the sound. (with a passive Jazz bass). It is a big clean amp.

I think just at the initial gain stage, the amps have very different design goals. I think that difference is further reflected in the "voice knobs" on the amps. In very, very simple terms, the Drive knob on the TH is a mid bump, and the voicing knob on the D800 is a mid scoop. Past that, they have pretty different EQs as well.

I need to spend some quality time with the D800 and get to know it better. Right off the batt, I'd be inclined to say that the D800 is a "louder" amp, but the TH500 can get pretty loud too... just a different kind of loud. Like I said, I really need more time with the Mesa.

Similar size, and weight. As far as features, I like the 2 ohm option on the D800 (although I have never actually run into a 2 ohm situation). I like the tuner out on the Th500... The lights on the TH500 are over the top. The mesa lights are more tasty... The Mesa looks great, and the layout is a little more intuitive than the TH.

 

[thehangingmist]

I've been using a TH500 pretty steady for a good long while, and a TH350 before that. Berg CN212 as my "big cab", and either a GB Bassic 15 or Berg CN210 as my "small cab".

After a (long story I'm not going to go into)... I just got a D800 last Thursday.



I agree, but would have never used the term "compressed" to describe the TH... but that language really has me thinking. It really does have a feel like a tube amp compressing when you are pushing the amp, and digging in on the bass. Sometimes that characteristic can it can be a little much for me on the TH500, which partly set me on the path to getting the D800...

The gain on the input stage is maybe the most noticeable big difference in the two amps. I have always kept the gain very low on the TH. Usually in the zero to 11:00 range. Past that, you start getting some pretty good breakup in your sound and you can take it all the way to fuzz territory if you really crank it and get the "Drive" knob involved. I pretty much had to get the D800 up in the 3:00+ range to start getting OD in the sound. (with a passive Jazz bass). It is a big clean amp.

I think just at the initial gain stage, the amps have very different design goals. I think that difference is further reflected in the "voice knobs" on the amps. In very, very simple terms, the Drive knob on the TH is a mid bump, and the voicing knob on the D800 is a mid scoop. Past that, they have pretty different EQs as well.

I need to spend some quality time with the D800 and get to know it better. Right off the batt, I'd be inclined to say that the D800 is a "louder" amp, but the TH500 can get pretty loud too... just a different kind of loud. Like I said, I really need more time with the Mesa.

Similar size, and weight. As far as features, I like the 2 ohm option on the D800 (although I have never actually run into a 2 ohm situation). I like the tuner out on the Th500... The lights on the TH500 are over the top. The mesa lights are more tasty... The Mesa looks great, and the layout is a little more intuitive than the TH.

I actually settled with a used shuttle 6.2
My friend has a th500 and I know what you mean. It is a great amp in its own place. But if I ever have to replace the shuttle.. I will probably get the subway.

 

[Gearhead17]

Lots of good information so far. The Aguilar TH 500 really has a strong midrange oomph to it while the D800 let's your Bass's tone cone through a lot more. For me, the D800 is my main amp because of this. The TH 500 is just too colored and hard to dial in. The D800 is the most versatile of the two, but if you dig the TH head, you really can't go wrong with it.

 

[Marial]

Hmmm.... I've been reading a lot about the D800 and I'm starting to get the itch (current TH500 user).

 

[Gearhead17]

Hmmm.... I've been reading a lot about the D800 and I'm starting to get the itch (current TH500 user).

If you want a much cleaner tone that is MUCH easier to dial in, the D800 is for you. The head will not WOW you with amazing tone, but it will make playing a breeze. There is some color to the D800, but it is not anywhere near the typical Ampeg head or the TH500. I like the head because I don't have to fight it. The low end is present and not heavily jacked up. The mids are defined and punch nicely. The high end is present and a little subdued, but can be bright if you boost it. It has headroom to spare, the gain knob is actually adjustable, and it's 5.5lbs. I have no complaints about it.

 

[Marial]

I need to do a little more research. I have a Rob Allen Mouse coming and my understanding is they play well with some heads and no so much with others. I like the idea of a slightly more transparent amp and I definitely like the ability to go to 2ohm, but we'll see. I imagine someone in Seattle has one I might be able to try out once my bass gets here.

 

[hennessybass]

Hmmm.... I've been reading a lot about the D800 and I'm starting to get the itch (current TH500 user).

I think if you are the type of player that tends to keeps the Gain and Drive on the TH pretty low, then you might really like the D800.

Like I said, I need to spend some more time with the D800, but so far I don't really disagree with anything anyone has said here. I will just say that I think the TH might be a little "brighter" sounding overall. Maybe a little more snap to it? What ever those words mean.

 

[Marial]

Interesting, given what I've read, I'd have expected the D800 to be brighter and snappier. I do prefer a clean tone, any grit/hair/fuzz comes from pedals, the amp is for adjusting frequencies and, well, amplifying what's put into it.

 

[hennessybass]

Interesting, given what I've read, I'd have expected the D800 to be brighter and snappier. I do prefer a clean tone, any grit/hair/fuzz comes from pedals, the amp is for adjusting frequencies and, well, amplifying what's put into it.

Like I said, I don't have all that much time with the D800 yet, so opinions might change. If you like to run pedals, I think the D800 would provide a nice clean platform to do that.

 

[Al Kraft]

I own both, and my Berg CN212 is the only cab I have used both heads with. My first impression is that for my volume needs (with 2 guitars and drummer) both heads do the job, although the D-800 feels like it could get a lot louder without having to work very hard. The Aguilar reminds me of a very full bodied tube type sound that changes a bit as you push it harder (a sense of compression was mentioned earlier and I could agree with that). The D-800 is full and clean and feels like it just gives you more of the same sound you dialed in when you push the volume - up to a point.

As for general tone and presence, I agree with the common characterization that the Aguilar TH is sort of the opposite end of scale compared to the GK MB heads. If you picture that scale, I would say that the D-800 fills a lot of space in-between those two extremes, with the ability to go from close to Walkabout to close to Carbine. The D-800 generally seems to be faster, with notes jumping out more distinctly...I like this characteristic in a busy band mix as it helps keep the bass from sounding muddy.

Finally, I think that with the way the controls are set up for shaping the tone, it's very difficult to directly compare these two heads. I get the distinct the feeling that they were designed to work well for two very different tonal spaces. However, I find a use for both and enjoy both very much. For me, the D-800 is clearly more versatile and I suspect most people will find its tone shaping controls to be more intuitive. It's hard to get a bad tone from the D-800 regardless of which knob you turn. On the other hand, the Aguilar controls are able to provide exquisite sounds, as well as some that would be disappointing for $99 practice amp - you really need to understand and know how to get the magic out of the Aguilar to make it work for you.

 

[nostatic]

I need to do a little more research. I have a Rob Allen Mouse coming and my understanding is they play well with some heads and no so much with others. I like the idea of a slightly more transparent amp and I definitely like the ability to go to 2ohm, but we'll see. I imagine someone in Seattle has one I might be able to try out once my bass gets here.

imho a Rob Allen and the TH500 are not a great combination (I have a Deep 5). The front end has a tough time with the piezo output and it has way too much wool for my taste but ymm.