minor ii V i

[johnnyroxx13]

Hi Todd,
First off, I need to thank you for writing your module systems. I haven't actually applied them yet as I am not quite finished learning them, but I feel very confident about them as compared to another system that I was using. I've actually bought several systems. Everyone of them seems a little different with good information in them, but they take the training wheels off too early. Your books and DVDs keep the confidence building and don't quickly progress after the basic primer. The only thing that I would like to see changed is placing a song after the major ii V I progression as sort of a first milestone in the 2nd book.

Now for the reason that I'm writing you. While going through your Walking Bass Line Module System Volume 2: Scale Modules. I feel that the major ii V I is easily understood, but I am a little confused on the minor ii V i. Since in reality the minor i is based off of the natural minor scale which is the 6th degree of the major scale, that would mean that the ii is based off of the 7th degree of the major scale and that the V should be based off of the 3rd degree of the major scale. However, the chord is major and there lies my confusion. Why? I know that this is the common minor progression. I've searched online and really can't find an answer. The best one that I can find is that it sounds better because of the leading tone into the i, so that is what is used. Did the progression ever use a minor v?

While I have your attention, will your 3rd book in the series ever be a hard copy or will it always be digital?

Thank you,
Ryan

 

[fearceol]

Hi Todd,

I am puzzled by this also.

To put "johnnyrox13's" question another way ( at least I think we are asking the same question) :

If we stack thirds to get the diatonic chords for a C minor sale, the 5 chord is... G-Bb-D. The interval from G to Bb is a minor 3rd.

So how come that the chord is Major ?


@ johnnyrox13 : Hope you dont mind me getting involved also.

 

[Todd Johnson]

Hi Todd,
First off, I need to thank you for writing your module systems. I haven't actually applied them yet as I am not quite finished learning them, but I feel very confident about them as compared to another system that I was using. I've actually bought several systems. Everyone of them seems a little different with good information in them, but they take the training wheels off too early. Your books and DVDs keep the confidence building and don't quickly progress after the basic primer. The only thing that I would like to see changed is placing a song after the major ii V I progression as sort of a first milestone in the 2nd book.

Now for the reason that I'm writing you. While going through your Walking Bass Line Module System Volume 2: Scale Modules. I feel that the major ii V I is easily understood, but I am a little confused on the minor ii V i. Since in reality the minor i is based off of the natural minor scale which is the 6th degree of the major scale, that would mean that the ii is based off of the 7th degree of the major scale and that the V should be based off of the 3rd degree of the major scale. However, the chord is major and there lies my confusion. Why? I know that this is the common minor progression. I've searched online and really can't find an answer. The best one that I can find is that it sounds better because of the leading tone into the i, so that is what is used. Did the progression ever use a minor v?

While I have your attention, will your 3rd book in the series ever be a hard copy or will it always be digital?

Thank you,
Ryan

Hi Guys,

The quick easy answer is that the "ii-7b5" chord in minor comes from the Natural Minor / Aeolian mode/scale... as does the i-7 chord.... The V chord comes from the 5th mode of the"Harmonic Minor" scale and that gives us the "V7b9" chord (spanish dominant scale)

If it was all diatonic based off of only the Natural minor scale you'd get : D-7b5 Gmi7 and Cmi7.... That diatonic V chord just lays there and doesn't pull you to C-7... Borrowing from the V7 chord of the Harmonic Minor gives us a G7b9 and that "B" natural pulls us UP to C and the b9 or Ab pulls us down to a "G".... C Harmonic Minor = C D Eb F G Ab "B" C ... Every other note from G in that scale = G B D F (and the flat 9) is Ab... which gives us G7b9....Now thats a V chord!!! HA!!

I TOTALLY understand your confusion....TOTALLY... It took me a long time to figure this one out too!!

SO.... good old Dmi7 G7 Cmaj7 (major II-V-I) all comes from the diatonic C major scale... convenient and AWESOME.....

But the Dmi7b5 G7b9 Cmi7 (minor ii-v-i).... The Dmi7b5 comes from C Nat. minor... The G7b9 comes from C Harmonic Minor... and the Cmi7 comes from C Nat. minor...

I hope this helps and makes sense... Thanks for your patience!!

 

[fearceol]

Hi Todd,

Thanks for taking the time to explain in such detail. I will print off your post and digest it in.. "small bite size chunks"...like you often recommend in your tutorials.

Thanks again.