Modern Nitro Finishes?

[bassbourne]

Being a fan of nitro finishes and vintage basses, I was wondering how modern nitro finishes (on say an American Original or AVRI instrument) compare to nitro of old?

In particular how a modern nitro finish would age compared to that on a vintage bass? Would you likely get the same kind of wear and tear after enough decades of abuse?

Also how are they made up differently? I heard there was a layer of poly on modern nitro instruments. Is that true and was this always the case?

Thanks!

 

[mikeswals]

Alot of that is carelessness, came from a period of it just being an old used bass.
Nothing I wear drags along a body edge from the upper horn on back to the forearm contour. All the chips peeled from slamming it on guitars stands along the bottom edge.
I absolutely love the way this Jazz looks, but no way I play or place instruments will ever get one there.

With that said, the 58RI I owned had a much thinner finish than any 62RI I've had. The later series was meant to spray on 'flash' so its thinner and wears quicker.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Well, there are newer formulations of nitro lacquer which are being used now. They have some other chemistry in there, I believe acrylic? It's less flammable, lower fumes, safer than traditional nitro lacquer. It's also tougher; less likely to crack and chip. So, if your goal is to get that cracked, chipped look, it's going to take more beating and abuse to get there.

Many builders and manufacturers are doing hybrid finishes too. For example, using polyurethane for the base coats, color coats and most of the clear top coats. Then they put a thin layer of nitro lacquer on top, and allow it to lightly crack. But the overall finish is solid and keeps the wood sealed up.

Or, they use poly for the base coats, then spray the color coats in nitro lacquer. Get them nicely cracked and aged, then spray clear polyester top coats to protect it from getting worse.

The goal is to make it look like an old worn-out finish, but make it durable long term.

 

[droo46]

The vast majority of the wear on my instruments is on the headstock. I'm always bumping that into things on tight stages.

 

[bobyoung53]

Alot of that is carelessness, came from a period of it just being an old used bass.
Nothing I wear drags along a body edge from the upper horn on back to the forearm contour. All the chips peeled from slamming it on guitars stands along the bottom edge.
I absolutely love the way this Jazz looks, but no way I play or place instruments will ever get one there.

With that said, the 58RI I owned had a much thinner finish than any 62RI I've had. The later series was meant to spray on 'flash' so its thinner and wears quicker.

Yes, there's a big difference between play wear and wear from careless neglect. I don't think that bass has ever seen wax or maybe even cleaning, sad. I had a nitro Fender for twenty years and it wore right down to the wood where I rested my arm, it was CAR and you could actually see the three different layers feather into each other, the back of the neck also wore down to the wood in places but considering that I played it a lot ot didn't look that bad. Most "relic'd" instruments I see shout 'fake' after seeing real ones.

 

[Muyy]

Well, there are newer formulations of nitro lacquer which are being used now. They have some other chemistry in there, I believe acrylic? It's less flammable, lower fumes, safer than traditional nitro lacquer. It's also tougher; less likely to crack and chip. So, if your goal is to get that cracked, chipped look, it's going to take more beating and abuse to get there.

Many builders and manufacturers are doing hybrid finishes too. For example, using polyurethane for the base coats, color coats and most of the clear top coats. Then they put a thin layer of nitro lacquer on top, and allow it to lightly crack. But the overall finish is solid and keeps the wood sealed up.

Or, they use poly for the base coats, then spray the color coats in nitro lacquer. Get them nicely cracked and aged, then spray clear polyester top coats to protect it from getting worse.

The goal is to make it look like an old worn-out finish, but make it durable long term.

The newer formulations of lacquer generally are more plasticized. Meaning, they don’t crack as much, are more resistant to damage, and have additives that resist scratching. They will age similarly but not as quickly and definitely not as much. They are also generally sprayed thicker than how traditional vintage finishes were sprayed. Lacquer, by nature, is just less durable than poly or urethane, and is susceptible to chemicals or oils.

Some companies do use a poly or urethane sealer, similar to how Fender use to use fullerplast as their sealer coat. This keeps the wood stable and allows for level sanding before color. The color could be lacquer or urethane, then generally lacquer top coats that could be aged. This also allows you to chemically strip the finish down to the sealer layer with acetone if a refin is needed.

All sealer, lacquer or poly or urethane, will keep the wood sealed and protected. Lacquer, being solvent based and not chemically catalyzed, continually dries over time (years) and becomes thinner and thinner. Lacquer also does not “breath”. When it’s on, it’s sealed.

I don’t really know of anyone cracking the finish then spraying over it except for the “crackle” type paint jobs. I suppose that’s possible but completely defeats the purpose in my opinion since it’s always the top coat that cracks.

 

[bassbourne]

Thanks all! Just what I wanted to know, plus some interesting extra info.

 

[Jefenator]

I really like the satin nitro finish on my Gibson EB-5. It feels nice and broken-in - especially after some of the edges develop a shiny patina. I much prefer this over any relicing process.
If you want that exposed wood without the belt sander short cut, it seems like a relatively thin nitro finish will wear through a lot more quickly than a typical thick poly finish.

 

[bobyoung53]

I really like the satin nitro finish on my Gibson EB-5. It feels nice and broken-in - especially after some of the edges develop a shiny patina. I much prefer this over any relicing process.
If you want that exposed wood without the belt sander short cut, it seems like a relatively thin nitro finish will wear through a lot more quickly than a typical thick poly finish.

Gibson finishes are beautiful except with my lousy photography it doesn't come out, don't mind my cat, she digs the bass: