Double Bass Monitoring and busking (battery powered, stand)

[Carfax]

Hey everyone,
I could really need some help from experienced giggers:

My pickup's a Shadow SH965 NFX which I currently run into a Zadow ze200combo.

I'm a rookie playing jazz in a rather loud quintett and my amp doesn't cut through as a monitor. It's a small combo which's bass speaker is directed downwards.
It's about hearing myself for intonation.

What I'm looking for:
- monitoring for gigs with my band
- battery powered combo for busking

I was wondering if I should go for a big "full-stack" rig, but think that might create other issues on stage if I just turned the volume up...
Maybe it's my amp's downward facing bass speaker, which is lovely for spreading the sound, but bad for directing it at me. At the gig I had the combo about 1,5 m (5 feet) away from me, with the treble speaker in my direction, but looking at my feet, not my ears, as you can't tilt the combo.

Would a combo-amp that I could set up next to me on the floor, but tilted to my ears, solve the issue? (E.g. an Eich BC112.)

I assume the best would be a speaker close to my ears. (I don't want in-ears though.)
Therefore, a speaker on a stand might do the trick. (Something like the Phil Jones Ear Box, which I suppose is nearly not loud enough for my situation.) As I want to keep things simple and compact I wouldn't want to run into a mixer into an amp into the speaker, I'd need a powered speaker.
Since I am also looking for a busking amp, I wonder if there's something that fits both bills (not heavier than 10 kg/22 lbs). (Perhaps EV Everse 8, JBL Eon One Compact or some Bose?)
If I'd go that route, would I need a pre-amp for my SH965 pickup? (I tried plugging it into a bluetooth speaker and the signal was barely audible.)



Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Ric Vice]

I've been looking for this kind of setup myself, the Bose S1 seems to be a good solution but they are not inexpensive. Your bass amp should provide enough power for the band
while the S1 would work for you monitoring. That said, I've tried using two different speakers spread apart one with me and the other far across the stage. What happens is you
get a significant lag between the two speakers that creates a delay between them. So you'll want to keep them in relatively close proximity to each other.

 

[Don Hergert]

Roland has just gone through a new model change, so there may still be some of their NOS Micro Cube Bass RX combo amps out there available, or you may want to try one of their new BOSS Dual Cube Bass LX models. Both are battery operated (6 or 8 AA batteries depending on the model).

I use the older Micro Cube Bass RX and it for me it has a track record of working well both indoor and outdoor gigs. I've seen street jazz bassists at Disneyland using the same model very successfully too. Don't let the wattage fool you, their speakers are designed around battery power and they pump volume for a small amp.

Whatever you might get, small amps do MUCH better if they are elevated so they are not pumping sound into peoples' feet and legs. I've modified a speaker stand so it will hold my amp at about my shoulder and ear level and it penetrates extremely well.

Good luck with this. Battery power is a challenging area in amplifiers, you'll be lucky not to have to try a number of them before you're satisfied. I was lucky my son who plays electric bass also has a Micro Cube Bass RX (among a number of other amps) and not only recommended it, but also let me borrow it for a while before I bought my own.

 

[lurk]

I've got a Phil Jones Double Four and it's great with a preamp and handles normal jazz level bands. I'm told folks have powered this successfully with a laptop battery. There's a thread on here on this amp that I bet has specific info on this. Nice and light too.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You might want to change your pickup. The Nanoflex is a nice pickup, but too polite to cut through and with a bit weak signal.
First try, unplug one of the pickup sensors. It works with one plugged in. Try both sides. Check if all strings are equally well hearable from the amp.
If not, the soundpost needs to get adjusted.
If the NFX doesn’t work as expected, you might need to try a different pickup (closer to the strings).

 

[Jason Sypher]

Perhaps not useful and not snarky at all but…why is the band so loud? It’s the first thing that comes to mind. So, if you can’t hear yourself, what are the other players hearing? And if they’re not hearing you, how are you playing jazz? That said, I vote for a small combo like a Fishman Loudbox Artist, raised up with a crate or something, DI to the house for gigs and spread across the stage a little in each monitor. These are extremely versatile, sound great for everything, will take a mic, two channel. Anything more than that and you have entered an arms race you will never win. I feel like any music that’s being played well will have all the parts and frequencies working together to create a full sound. If something is being drowned out there is someone out of order in the group. I’ve busked for decades, mostly in New Orleans but also New York. We NEVER used amps of any kind. I often equate those years with teaching me how to get a sound, direct a sound, be heard and felt. Busking is the best possible place to get your sound together. I recommend pushing through acoustically and figuring out how to play that bass!

It just occurred to me that this subject came up a few days ago. I was busking with my wife in Japan, duo, Irish twin fiddling (me on bass). It sounded great but not super loud. My wife suggested we get amps and I said “it will be louder but it won’t sound half as good as acoustic”. And that’s true. It will be louder but so much more is lost than what is gained.

 

[hensonbass]

I bought one of these for busking last year to use with upright bass and it works really well for the price point:

https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Amp...8YD9DB4D&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_m_grid_dv_rp_0_9_t

 

[Carfax]

I'm told folks have powered this successfully with a laptop battery. There's a thread on here on this amp that I bet has specific info on this.

Why a laptop battery and not one of these new power station/banks with regular sockets?
Is there a reason why I don't read about people using these power stations for busking? (I didn't see any big brands selling these, maybe it's still not developed enough and doesn't survive many loading cycles?)

 

[Katoosie]

Why a laptop battery and not one of these new power station/banks with regular sockets?
Is there a reason why I don't read about people using these power stations for busking? (I didn't see any big brands selling these, maybe it's still not developed enough and doesn't survive many loading cycles?)

I assume it's because of the cost.

Any serious and quality power station costs as much as the amp you're going to use. They are chunkier and yet another box to carry around. When busking, you want to be portable and not get bogged down by your separate power source.

A laptop battery is small, replaceable, you can mount or stash it anywhere while playing or moving around. It's also less of a cost to replace if it dies compared to some EcoFlow or a Jackery unit.

 

[Carfax]

You might want to change your pickup. The Nanoflex is a nice pickup, but too polite to cut through and with a bit weak signal.
First try, unplug one of the pickup sensors. It works with one plugged in. Try both sides. Check if all strings are equally well hearable from the amp.
If not, the soundpost needs to get adjusted.
If the NFX doesn’t work as expected, you might need to try a different pickup (closer to the strings).

My bandmates and the audience had no trouble hearing me at all (via my combo-amp and the PA), it was just that I couldn't hear myself good enough for intonation (depending on how loud the others played and if the keyboard got into bass territory).
I don't think it's the pickup because in other situations I never had that problem before.
All the strings were equally well hearable from the amp.

 

[Carfax]

Perhaps not useful and not snarky at all but…why is the band so loud?

It's not loud all the time, but our drummer plays very loudly, "explosive", quite often, and we all love this style of his. It's not an ego situation about being the loudest.

Perhaps not useful and not snarky at all but…why is the band so loud?

So, if you can’t hear yourself, what are the other players hearing?[/QUOTE]
They were hearing me well through my combo-amp and PA.

We NEVER used amps of any kind. I often equate those years with teaching me how to get a sound, direct a sound, be heard and felt. Busking is the best possible place to get your sound together. I recommend pushing through acoustically and figuring out how to play that bass!

I could imagine this works for bebop, but ballads? Together with a Sax? In a busy place outside?

 

[Jason Sypher]

It's not loud all the time, but our drummer plays very loudly, "explosive", quite often, and we all love this style of his. It's not an ego situation about being the loudest.


So, if you can’t hear yourself, what are the other players hearing?

They were hearing me well through my combo-amp and PA.


I could imagine this works for bebop, but ballads? Together with a Sax? In a busy place outside?[/QUOTE]
I see. Yeah, I bet Jimmy Garrison sometimes wished he had a personal monitor playing next to Elvin. There are times I lose my sound on a stage, that’s where my practice comes into play. In a sense I can almost FEEL if I’m in tune or not. It’s not ideal but it happens.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

For this kind of music/playing style you would better get through with a Full Circle, Yamahiko or even a bridge wing pickup (if you don‘t play with the bow).

You might get the Nanoflex working if you turn up the mids and highs. Also try to connect only one foil to the battery adapter. The sound is clearer that way.

But I‘m afraid your drummer needs to keep his explosions down in volume level. It is not your fault if the drummer cannot keep himself under control.

Maybe the band needs to stop playing at all as long as the explosions that are not under control take and continue when the drummer gets tired playing on that level. Or any piece can end with the drum solo.

 

[Earl]

They were hearing me well through my combo-amp and PA.


I could imagine this works for bebop, but ballads? Together with a Sax? In a busy place outside?

I see. Yeah, I bet Jimmy Garrison sometimes wished he had a personal monitor playing next to Elvin. There are times I lose my sound on a stage, that’s where my practice comes into play. In a sense I can almost FEEL if I’m in tune or not. It’s not ideal but it happens.[/QUOTE]
Not long before he died J Garrison was using a magnetic pickup and Ampeg B15 so...yeah.

 

[eh_train]

Roland has just gone through a new model change, so there may still be some of their NOS Micro Cube Bass RX combo amps out there available, or you may want to try one of their new BOSS Dual Cube Bass LX models. Both are battery operated (6 or 8 AA batteries depending on the model).

Just gear-nerding here, noticing the differences between the old and new Roland amps: The old has 4 x 4" speakers, while the new has 2 x5". The old had a built in tuner, while I think the new removed this and put in a Looper. I love my older model, and it has helped out on many gigs in the park!

 

[turf3]

My bandmates and the audience had no trouble hearing me at all (via my combo-amp and the PA), it was just that I couldn't hear myself good enough for intonation (depending on how loud the others played and if the keyboard got into bass territory).
I don't think it's the pickup because in other situations I never had that problem before.
All the strings were equally well hearable from the amp.

I have a down-firing amp that I use for double-bass (Acoustic Image Contra, first series). If I have trouble hearing myself, I put it up on a chair and I have a smalll piece of plywood I set it on, to keep the down-firing working more or less correctly. (Ideally the down firing speaker needs a large plane, like a floor; but it works darn well with my little approx. 24 x 24 piece of plywood.)

 

[Don Hergert]

Just gear-nerding here, noticing the differences between the old and new Roland amps: The old has 4 x 4" speakers, while the new has 2 x5". The old had a built in tuner, while I think the new removed this and put in a Looper. I love my older model, and it has helped out on many gigs in the park!

I agree, enough so that I'd be a little hesitant to pop for the new model without seeing and hearing it first. The old 4x4 model is actually pretty amazing. I hope mine outlasts me.

 

[Ric Vice]

I see. Yeah, I bet Jimmy Garrison sometimes wished he had a personal monitor playing next to Elvin. There are times I lose my sound on a stage, that’s where my practice comes into play. In a sense I can almost FEEL if I’m in tune or not. It’s not ideal but it happens.

Not long before he died J Garrison was using a magnetic pickup and Ampeg B15 so...yeah.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, I did not know that, but it made perfect sense for him to do that.

 

[Wasnex]

If I were doing some sort of strolling gig, the Roland Cube Street EX would be about the sweet spot for me as far as balancing the carry VS performance. The regular Cube Street, Bass Cube RX, and new Boss Dual Bass Cube LX are not as loud as the Cube Street EX. The Cube Street EX is rated 2x25W into a pair of 8" woofers. However, I think actual performance is probably closer to 12.5W total. So don't expect to be able to drive the bus with such a modest amp.

If driving the bus sounds interesting read on:

Years ago I bought a GK 700RB/112 combo. This amp has a telescoping handle and tilts back to roll on some little built-in wheels. It's heavy, but rolls around like airport luggage. It would be nice if the handle was a bit longer, but I have rolled it through some rather large convention centers without problems. Rated for 225W into the internal 12".

Just for fun and because I have an irrational fascination with the potential of battery powered gigs, I bought a Jackery 300 pure sine power station. I pushed the GK just under clipping and could not tell the difference between using the Jackery and wall power, other than the amp has a low level hum on the Jackery. It would be easy to strap the Jackery to the amp and roll both around.

If you are curious, here is the thread I made to review the Jackery: Battery-Powered Mayhem! (Jackery 300)

Jackery is listing the 300 for $20 off through July 9. Jackery Explorer 300 Portable Power Station

 

[Wasnex]

FYI, The Phil Jones Ear Box is not really intended as a stand alone solution.

Perhaps @Zbysek will comment.