More is Less is More? Down a rabbit hole

BearlyBass

BearlyBass

May 29, 2017
110
748
4,981
#1
You know how it is, you get the itch to mess with your signal chain and before you know it the whole board is pulled apart while you play switcharoo. I’ve been running an Origin Effects trifecta (Cali76, DCX Bass, and BassRig Super Vintage) as my core tone for awhile, but after borrowing a Sushi Box FX More, I knew it was what I had been looking for to kick on when my tone needed a bump. But I loved it as an always-on early in the chain as well… decisions decisions. Anywho now I have two lol.

I’ve also been meaning to challenge myself to be less of a bass tone Luddite and learn how to use this HX Stomp that’s been gathering dust. I’m still on that journey but early signs are good. IMA’s presets have really helped me to understand some of the possibilities as well as good practices.

For good measure, I also picked up a ZeroFive Audio Lowrider. Holy tones, Batman. All of this has turned my pedalboard into an extended testing ground for that core “me” sound. Thought y’all might appreciate witnessing the insanity. The chain right now is More > Cali76 > DCX > HX Stomp with Lowrider > More #2 > Super Vintage in the effects loop:

IMG_0547.jpeg


I needed to resize a few cables to keep it from being a rats nest, and ended up with the cutest little guy that’s doing the trick nicely:

IMG_0543.jpeg


What will stay and what will go? Who can say. All I know right now is there are a dozen different settings with this arrangement that all sound killer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fuzzbass, Killing Floor, bassbrad and 1 other person
#2
....and to make it all muddier, tone is a moving target ....ear fatigue is real.....the fresh side of the sonic pillow often pleases and anything a bit louder or bassier initially sounds like an upgrade.....unless/until one takes the time to do a proper comparison at unity volume without bass boost......rabbit hole, indeed, LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Verticos, Fuzzbass, dbflats and 2 others
#3
BearlyBass said:
You know how it is, you get the itch to mess with your signal chain and before you know it the whole board is pulled apart while you play switcharoo. I’ve been running an Origin Effects trifecta (Cali76, DCX Bass, and BassRig Super Vintage) as my core tone for awhile, but after borrowing a Sushi Box FX More, I knew it was what I had been looking for to kick on when my tone needed a bump. But I loved it as an always-on early in the chain as well… decisions decisions. Anywho now I have two lol.

I’ve also been meaning to challenge myself to be less of a bass tone Luddite and learn how to use this HX Stomp that’s been gathering dust. I’m still on that journey but early signs are good. IMA’s presets have really helped me to understand some of the possibilities as well as good practices.

For good measure, I also picked up a ZeroFive Audio Lowrider. Holy tones, Batman. All of this has turned my pedalboard into an extended testing ground for that core “me” sound. Thought y’all might appreciate witnessing the insanity. The chain right now is More > Cali76 > DCX > HX Stomp with Lowrider > More #2 > Super Vintage in the effects loop:

View attachment 7085739

I needed to resize a few cables to keep it from being a rats nest, and ended up with the cutest little guy that’s doing the trick nicely:

View attachment 7085740

What will stay and what will go? Who can say. All I know right now is there are a dozen different settings with this arrangement that all sound killer.
Click to expand...
What kind of cables are those?!
 
#4
lomo said:
....and to make it all muddier, tone is a moving target ....ear fatigue is real.....the fresh side of the sonic pillow often pleases and anything a bit louder or bassier initially sounds like an upgrade.....unless/until one takes the time to do a proper comparison at unity volume without bass boost......rabbit hole, indeed, LOL.
Click to expand...
Yes that’s the idea, setting it all up unity and playing some tunes with each sound I like to see how it sits in the mix. I’m very much a “live with it in real life for awhile” grounded experiment person rather than theoreticals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lomo, 31HZ and FenrirofOld
#6
I bought a couple of the IMA presets. I think they're a good starting point but, in my opinion, they're not very well thought out/implemented. I could have built most of those in a few minutes. Definitely not worth the price tag. But yeah, they do get you thinking about possibilities. I'm not a big fan of super effecty bass sounds. But I've found the Stomp can serve well as a very conservative pedalboard all by itself... especially if you add extension 4/5 stomps.

Oh, and nice job getting the Stormtrooper White HX Stomp. This is the way! :thumbsup:


IMG_5972.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
#7
Yep, it can be quite the rabbit hole.
Live, I always try to err on the side of minimal, but covers everything adequately.
Have found that the details are (more often than not) lost in the mix.
Which is why I quit carrying this pedalboard with an amp, which is quite fun and offers a lot...
00-0bRNyLnJL0pZOju37gIGvAJPjGm5zan3rARPapS3bn0G2TiVhPTUCXJsMzan9Ujg

With just the Bass Fly Rig and a set of IEMs. (The MXR is used rarely. please ignore ;))
00-0bRNyLnJL0pZOju37gIGvAJPjGm5zan3rARPapS3bn2tfP1boMAqCbZjXyQj4S_l5cYdfB3jRoL_VZILaXEufg
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassbrad and BearlyBass
#8
@BearlyBass I've been looking at adding an always-on MORE ahead of my compressor pedal (an Empress Bass Comp) - I've more or less isolated it as the source of most of my noise, as I'm running it with pretty high input gain (around 3 o'clock). I like that high compression for a consistent signal with lots of sustain with a good bit of clean signal mixed in to retain my dynamcis. ALSO I've heard that the noise floor on the MORE is very low.

My thinking is to turn the input gain on the compressor real low (like 8 or 9 o'clock) and run the MORE real hot instead, effectively transferring the role of compressor input gain over to the MORE (plus all the tube-y goodness). Would you mind fiddling with those two controls and see how increasing the output on the MORE as you decrease your input gain (and vice versa) affects any potential for noise to be introduced?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
#9
The main thing I'd say, at least in terms of live, is that gig acoustics differ enough that what tone or sound is going to work best in any given setting might cause problems in another. I got an envelope filter I like to use in the bass-boost mode and consider an always-on part of my chain. But then I get to a room where the thing is best left off completely to get a workable sound. But it sure is fun to try stuff✌🏻
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
#10
BearlyBass said:
Yes that’s the idea, setting it all up unity and playing some tunes with each sound I like to see how it sits in the mix. I’m very much a “live with it in real life for awhile” grounded experiment person rather than theoreticals.
Click to expand...
In the mix is the key phrase. I've found that polite tones just don't cut it usually. Can get away with a lot more boost than we think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
#12
I have a new rule: My pedal chain for any given show must fit into my Mono Tick. That leads me to the point where I only pick what's absolutely necessary and leave out optionals which wouldn't make a significant contribution. On many shows, I don't use pedals at all.

In my subjective experience, the difference that many bass pedals claim to make (marketing) is mitigated when the sound engineer squeezes the bass signal into the live mix. Besides, they are paid to worry about my FoH sound. I feel only responsible to provide a healthy signal with core characteristics of my target sound - not every EQ curve. Communication is free; most engineers listen to me about the sound I'm going for and do a good job using their own toolbox.

Studio is a different story, but we have good plugins nowadays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bellbottoms, BearlyBass, RattleSnack and 1 other person
#13
In my opinion this would depend a LOT on the rest of your setup, how you use it and whether you're aiming for ONE solid core tone, or if you for example are in a cover band where you need to nail lots of different tones/genres.

Personally I get the best tone BY FAR by using a minimum of pedals and a good tube amp with a good cab. For me the ideal pedalboard is:

Tuner>HPF>compressor.

The HPF is set quite low, around 40 Hz, and it's mostly there to prevent the compressor from overshooting on low notes. The compressor is only there to gently shape the attack/envelope of my notes, not to do any heavy gain reduction. I leave that to the FOH engineer, if needed. I will also NOT do any extensive eq'ing, only subtle "broad stroke" adjustments on the amp's tone controls and with the passive tone control on my bass. Anything more than that is best left to the FOH engineer who can actually hear what's happening in the room.

Sometimes I also use a good tube preamp after the tuner to soften transients a bit (but set as "flat" as possible, it's only there to prevent the compressor from overshooting on spikes). Very rarely, and only if I absolutely need it, I wil also use a carefully selected dirt pedal in front of the compressor.

My point is, your pedalboard would be total overkill for my needs, and most likely detrimental to my tone. I've never, ever gotten a good tone by using "amp-in-a-box" pedals into an actual tube amp. If I blend the mic'ed amp with a DI, I've always gotten much better results by tapping a clean/dry DI-signal pre-pedalboard.

But this is for MY needs. If you mainly go ampless/direct to FOH, or if you need to nail a lot of different tones/genres, you will have completely different needs. And only YOU will know what's needed to get the tone you're aiming for.

There's also the potential for adding noise with lots of pedals. Especially if you don't manage your gain staging very carefully.

So generally, yeah, I definitely think less is more when it comes to pedals. For MY tonal needs, and in MY experience anyway.

Pedals can be fun, but like you said, it can also be a rabbit hole.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lomo and Polfuste
#16
Kerem Koseoglu said:
I have a new rule: My pedal chain for any given show must fit into my Mono Tick. That leads me to the point where I only pick what's absolutely necessary and leave out optionals which wouldn't make a significant contribution. On many shows, I don't use pedals at all.

In my subjective experience, the difference that many bass pedals claim to make (marketing) is mitigated when the sound engineer squeezes the bass signal into the live mix. Besides, they are paid to worry about my FoH sound. I feel only responsible to provide a healthy signal with core characteristics of my target sound - not every EQ curve. Communication is free; most engineers listen to me about the sound I'm going for and do a good job using their own toolbox.

Studio is a different story, but we have good plugins nowadays.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. For years my pedalboard was a tuner and a DI, with room for dirt or some modulation depending on the gig. Now that most nights are ampless, I’m more inclined to have a few things shaping the core tone on my board.

I should have been more clear in my initial post - the idea/goal with this experiment is to end up with an efficient setup. I’m not dragging all this around for Motown night on the regular, I just want to spend a little time having a few options available to see what feels right both in rehearsal and on stage.
 
#17
BearlyBass said:
Totally agree. For years my pedalboard was a tuner and a DI, with room for dirt or some modulation depending on the gig. Now that most nights are ampless, I’m more inclined to have a few things shaping the core tone on my board.

I should have been more clear in my initial post - the idea/goal with this experiment is to end up with an efficient setup. I’m not dragging all this around for Motown night on the regular, I just want to spend a little time having a few options available to see what feels right both in rehearsal and on stage.
Click to expand...
I totally understand your point of view. It's a sign of care to aim at consistently sounding good anywhere.

In my case, the styles I play don't require me to sound like playing through an amp + cab. This realization has lightened up my board significantly - despite all marketing efforts of pedal companies. With a single quality preamp in the bass or on the floor, I can shape my core sound - to be fit into the mix by the engineer (ampless). Occasionally; an octave, dirt or phaser makes the cut to the gig - if some songs call for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
#18
I have a board that uses all sounds from a hx stomp. It sounds and works great, simple to have at rehearsals. It just works, but still…
These two into the stomp, with just some slight eq added last in chain. Well it just sounds the best.
IMG_1049.jpeg

While I have been thinking about getting the super vintage, I can’t say I’d really need it. I try to keep using whatever else might be needed from the stomp. Just to keep it simple, but it’s so damn hard not trying out new stuff lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: BearlyBass
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back