Music notation. Which bass clef for electric bass, and which for cello

[R Flynn]

I am an intermediate (good beginner?) at reading music for electric bass. Recently I decided to try playing Bach Cello Suites on electric bass and purchased the Barenreiter edition. My 4 string bass is tuned to E. The way I’m reading the notation the cello suites has notes as low as C below that E.
This is all fine and I’d expect that a 5 string bass with a low B would cover that range. Except I read yesterday that a bass is tuned E1 A1 D2 G2 and a cello is tuned C2, G2, D3, A3, ie a cello is tuned higher than a bass. So I could play the cello suites’ low C at the 4th fret on the A, even though that would be different to the way I am used to reading.
The question is, whether the bass clef symbol for electric bass should look different to the bass clef for a cello. Perhaps one of those little 8s under the clef symbol?
Or I'm missing something else?

 

[jefkritz]

I started on cello. Same bass clef for both

You can take it up an octave if that makes it easier, but that's not normally the way I've learned it.

Only clef I'm aware of that moves is the tenor clef

 

[bholder]

I started on cello. Same bass clef for both

You can take it up an octave if that makes it easier, but that's not normally the way I've learned it.

Only clef I'm aware of that moves is the tenor clef

That's the funny-looking "in the middle" one, right?

ah-yup (had to look it up)

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Bass clef is bass clef. When they write our voice parts out on expanded staff, it's descending from soprano then Alto in Treble clef, then tenor and bass in the bass clef. Our hymnal skips tenor clef (thank god!).

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The question is, whether the bass clef symbol for electric bass should look different to the bass clef for a cello. Perhaps one of those little 8s under the clef symbol?

Technically, it probably should, but in practice, it basically never does. At least IME, virtually everybody who writes for bass understands that it's a transposing instrument, as is the guitar, and just uses regular bass clef. This is exactly what people who write for the guitar do with the treble clef. If you're wondering what register to play the piece in, use whichever sounds better to you and is technically feasible.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Bass parts when scored for bass are typically written in concert pitch, bass clef but one octave higher than pitched. So a C on the staff is actually pitched with the first C on the ledgers below the staff.
Tubas, Trombone and left hand piano are concert pitch bass clef as written.
This is not a hard rule but very common. If you can read bass clef to include ledgers above and below the staff you got everything covered and just raise or lower the octave as needed for the part.

 

[mambo4]

Bass guitar ( and upright bass ) is a contrabass transposed instrument, played and octave lower than written, a cello is not.
The cleph is identical for the same reason a Trumpet or Sax still uses Treble clef,
even though they are also transposed, which I guess is a few centuries of established convention.

 

[jlo95]

At least IME, virtually everybody who writes for bass understands that it's a transposing instrument,

This is the answer. Electric bass is a transposed instrument. Meaning the bass sounds an octave lower than it is written. That low C you’re reading is actually the C on your A string fret 3.

 

[longfinger]

Properly, it should use a bass clef with the 8 below it, and the guitar should use the treble clef with the 8 below it. Then folks on other instruments would better understand the range these instruments play in. Finale music software has these clefs, as do the others.. Then with the transposed clef, one would read "at pitch".

However, centuries of tradition just have the parts use regular bass clef (and regular treble for guitar) with the understanding that these instruments sound an octave lower than written.

Cello music is written on bass clef , sounding as written.
Bass guitar is written on bass clef, sounding an octave lower than written.

 

[bfields]

This is all fine and I’d expect that a 5 string bass with a low B would cover that range. Except I read yesterday that a bass is tuned E1 A1 D2 G2 and a cello is tuned C2, G2, D3, A3, ie a cello is tuned higher than a bass. So I could play the cello suites’ low C at the 4th fret on the A

Yes, that's right (though I think you meant the third fret, not the fourth).

So a 4-string bass will have no trouble reaching the lowest notes in the cello suites. There might be some trouble with the highest notes, though.

 

[Paul New]

Just buy an edition transposed up the octave for bass.

 

[Altitude]

I started on cello. Same bass clef for both

You can take it up an octave if that makes it easier, but that's not normally the way I've learned it.

Only clef I'm aware of that moves is the tenor clef

Same!

Actually I don’t think the tenor clef moves. IIRC, there’s an alto clef that looks the same as the tenor clef but is positioned differently on the staff. Not sure how much it’s used these days.

 

[fdeck]

Cello parts still use bass, tenor, and treble clefs. Alto clef is typically for viola.

The bass plays an octave below the cello when reading the same note on the page. As a result, notes scored below low E on cello parts won't be playable on a EADG tuned 4 string bass. There are a variety of ways to cope with this.

Orchestral players usually have an extension on the E string that lets them go down to a low C. If not, then they just transpose the lowest notes up an octave. There are of course five-string basses as well.

In my view, there's no official rule on how to play the Bach suites. They weren't all written for CGDA tuned cello. My opinion is that one can be a bit creative in finding ways to make them playable, and the big challenge is making them sound musical. This is also true on the cello.

 

[SharpCat]

Electric basses use the stylized Fender clef.

 

[antfarm]

Not answering your question regarding clefs, but here is s great resource for learning the Cello Suites on electric bass:

Bach Cello Suites for Bass Guitar | All Movements.

Bach Cello Suites for Electric and Acoustic Bass Guitar. Interactive study tool available in different keys.

bach2bass.com

 

[SteveCS]

Only clef I'm aware of that moves is the tenor clef

Technically it is a 'C' clef. It is 'Tenor' is when it is on the 4th line. If you see it on the third (middle) line then it is 'Alto'. But yes, it can go anywhere. Like all clefs it always references a line, never a space. The reason you don't see it in bass music is that is doesn't transpose - it is always centred around middle C. If you tried to use it to indicate Middle C in bass music it would have to go in a space:

 

[SteveCS]

In my view, there's no official rule on how to play the Bach suites. They weren't all written for CGDA tuned cello. My opinion is that one can be a bit creative in finding ways to make them playable, and the big challenge is making them sound musical.

What people tend to forget is that, outside of the preludes, they are all dances of one sort or another. My heart sinks when I hear them gunned out at a million beats per minute without shape, totally lifeless and with no room to breath.

 

[djmay]

Cello parts still use bass, tenor, and treble clefs. Alto clef is typically for viola.

The bass plays an octave below the cello when reading the same note on the page. As a result, notes scored below low E on cello parts won't be playable on a EADG tuned 4 string bass. There are a variety of ways to cope with this.

Orchestral players usually have an extension on the E string that lets them go down to a low C. If not, then they just transpose the lowest notes up an octave. There are of course five-string basses as well.

In my view, there's no official rule on how to play the Bach suites. They weren't all written for CGDA tuned cello. My opinion is that one can be a bit creative in finding ways to make them playable, and the big challenge is making them sound musical. This is also true on the cello.

Suite 6 was written for a 5-string instrument tuned cgdae. That is why it is so difficult on 4-string cello. (None of them is easy)

 

[Mikich]

Upright bass is also called double bass. When it reads the same music as the cello (which was the case from very early to about Beethoven) the pitch sounds one octave lower. Upright players generally play the cello suites at pitch which means that they are transposing the sheet music up an octave so that it sounds the same pitch as the cello would sound. Mr Q is a special case because he plays a bass tuned in fifths like a cello. Most uprights are tuned EADG.
With regard to the first suite:
There are YouTube videos of electric bass players doing both; raising the whole piece an octave so that it is mostly played above the twelfth fret or playing it as written and raising the octave when necessary.
Try the edition by Samuel Sterling. He transposed the cello suites down a fifth so the first suite is in C rather than G. They fit nicely on a typical Fender fretboard that way.

 

[Quentin MCB]

Bass and double bass are transposing instruments, that means it is not written at the real sounding pitch. It is written an octave higher than what it really sounds. Cello in comparison is not a transposing instrument. So a C2 written for cello will sound a C2, but a C2 written for bass will sound a C1