NBD - Custom Multiscale/Fanned Fretless Five

[J Posega]

I ordered this bass back in February from The Music Zoo on AliExpress. If you want to see the nitty gritty details of what to expect when going through this process, visit my original thread. Several TB members ordered from the same seller around the same time after @darkkimhari posted about his experience ordering with that seller.

As a reference point for myself, I had Bass & Guitar Hub (their @ is bassguitarhub) on Instagram create a mockup of the bass several months back. The builder never saw this mockup.

Here's how I spec'd it:

• 5 string
• Sadowsky Modern-style body, basswood or poplar with flamed maple (veneer) top
• Honey amberburst finish
• 2L 3R headstock like a reversed Warmoth
• 35-32" multiscale, maple neck, rosewood-like fretboard (dunno what they ended up using)
• Unlined fretless
• Neck dimensions nearly the same as my Dingwall Super P5
• 4.5" x 1.5" soapbars (EMG45 size) set in custom locations inspired by my Super P5 - neck pickup centered same as forward coil on my SP5, bridge closer to the neck than my SP5

Here it is, 305 days later!

20 of those days were spent in shipping hell, but it finally arrived yesterday and I spent some time with it today giving it a look over, setup, and some play time.

I'm giving it a 10/10 on nailing the look.

The mockup finish is a little more brown which I think is closer to the reference photos I sent to Jacky, but every monitor and screen is different and honestly, I love how the color came out on this. The mockup fingerboard is also much darker than what appears on my bass, but I'm not mad about that.

• I had asked for the headstock to just be matched to the body edge color, but they went all out and did a burst on it. It looks great.
• At one point after I placed the order, I asked if I could get roasted maple for the neck. I honestly can't tell if mine is roasted or not. It's not raw maple bright, but it's not as dark as several other roasted necks I have. I forgot to grab a pic, but the back of the neck is a light brown hue that hints at being roasted or the satin finish they used is just lightly tinted. Either way, it looks and feels nice.

Quality I give an 8/10. The bridges aren't evenly spaced, the second volume knob was not tightened down all the way, and the bottom strap button was tightened down so hard it crushed the finish a bit. As I was putting on new strings, I found that the E and B tuners wouldn't turn in the tuning-up direction without some tension on them so they're clearly some super cheap parts.

• There's some light brown - for lack of a better word - stuff in some of the more open grain on the fingerboard. It looks like grain filler and when I oiled the fingerboard, my towel picked up a lot of light brown, so I think they might have haphazardly grain filled the board a little bit. Doesn't impact anything like playability or longevity, just an observation.
• The neck dimensions seem spot on for what I ordered. Feels pretty similar to my Super P5 which are the specs I sent to Jacky.
• When installing the neck, they put a hairline crack in the clear coat. It's really hard to get a picture of and it's not super noticeable and won't bother me in the long term, but it's disappointing that they weren't even really rushing to finish my bass and managed to do this. It's more noticeable to the naked eye, but squiggly vertical line to the left of the B, starting at the corner of the neck pocket in the next pic.

More problematic is that I asked for dot inlays at every position, placed between the D and G strings but I only got dots at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24 and they're basically centered under the G. Honestly, it's not a big deal that they didn't get that quite right because, it turns out, from playing position I can't really see those markers anyway. So, while I'm not disappointed because those dots aren't particularly useful, it's something to bear in mind that they can overlook some of your specs.

The fingerboard edge inlays and the edges of the board itself leave something to be desired. The edges are not really rounded over at all and feel a bit sharp. I can remedy this with some careful sanding but, well, I'll let the next picture speak for itself.

If I rounded over the bass edge of the fingerboard, the high note inlays would peak through. They clearly do these by hand because otherwise they'd need to build some sort of complex jig to hold the neck for the CNC to do the work.

I'm not going to rate this bass on playability or tone. The bass shipped with the strings detuned significantly, a pretty significant shim (bonus points that they used actually wood veneer) to angle the neck back, and the truss rod nut only finger tight. I put new strings on, tightened down the truss rod nut a bit, and tuned it up to find that it was buzzing all over the neck except a few places around the middle. I took out the shim and retuned.

• With new D'addario 130-40 strings installed (selected to for balanced tension across the fingerboard, slightly lighter than typical) and truss rod just barely tightened (literally just enough so it doesn't rattle) the bass does not achieve any forward relief, so the 1st and 2nd note positions buzz and fretout (they're just more buzz than note).
• There's a couple things I can try: put a shim at the nut end of the neck heel instead of the bridge end that angles the headstock forward (probably the first thing I'll try). With some bridge height adjustment, I should still achieve comfortable action if it improves the fretout problem. If that doesn't do it, I go up to a 135-45 string set which ought to pull the neck into some relief.
• Bottom line on playability is that it is playable from the 3rd note position up, and achieves pretty low action. The bass is also not heavy (probably around 8 pounds, will weigh later) and only neck dives mildly on my lap.

Tone is entirely subjective and I have to say I'm surprised that the stock pickups sound just fine. It's wired volume, volume, tone, tone but instead of being 1 tone per pickup like a Les Paul, it's just got one tone pot hooked up to the next, like if you had a Jazz bass and just tacked a second tone pot on. Very weird but superfluous because I'll be replacing the guts with a set of Fishman Fluence pickups and preamp tomorrow or Monday.

• I'll say that my calculated pickup positions are, basically, perfect for me. The neck sounds like my Super P and the bridge, which is closer to the neck than the bridge pickup on my Super P, is a little thicker and punchier, more like an MM than a typical J.

Mods: I installed a 3-string retainer on the headstock to improve the break angle on the ADG strings. I did not specify an angled headstock (which I should have because I prefer it), but with the string tree installed all is well so no loss there. I also put on Dunlop Straplok buttons, which I drilled the holes in the body a size larger because the stock strap buttons were installed with two of the narrowest screws I've ever seen used for this purpose.

• Once I get playability sorted out, I might coat the fingerboard in CA glue. I did this with a cheap OLP bass I defretted and I love how it came out.

Overall, it was well worth the wait and I think I got a little more than I paid for. I don't even know what the next cheapest, totally custom, fanned fretless would have been. I anticipated quality similar to budget, but not beginner, range Ibanez like an SR300 and I think it's at least that good, but it's hard to compare because this is a wholly unique, one-of-a-kind bass.

Taking shipping and tax out of the equation, I paid about $420 USD and I got my money's worth in quality and playability, but an invaluable amount in the totally custom nature of the design.

 

[bholder]

The glitches notwithstanding, that's a fine looking bass.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi J Posega

More problematic is that I asked for dot inlays at every position, placed between the D and G strings

The guys who built your bass probably laughed about your horrble idea!

With a multiscale (fanned) fretboard, the dots would have been completely useless to intonate your bass!

Wrong for the G string and wrong for the D string!

(And that for each and every position on the fretboard! )

I only got dots at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24 and they're basically centered under the G

Position markers are only orientation points! No need to have them for every position!

When you set your intonation (12th = octave) you will find out!

Have fun!


wise(b)ass

 

[DCGuy]

What a cool project. I’m curious about the process of finding the correct pitch for each note, especially higher on the neck. Is it mostly by ear or hand position or what? Seems like the basic fretless challenge is more complex here.

 

[J Posega]

The glitches notwithstanding, that's a fine looking bass.

Thanks!

Hi J Posega

The guys who built your bass probably laughed about your horrble idea!

With a multiscale (fanned) fretboard, the dots would have been completely useless to intonate your bass!

Wrong for the G string and wrong for the D string!

(And that for each and every position on the fretboard! )

Position markers are only orientation points! No need to have them for every position!

When you set your intonation (12th = octave) you will find out!

Have fun!

wise(b)ass

A truly wiseass remark, minus the wise.

Like you said, the markers are merely a reference point, even on a monoscale bass. Calling them completely useless is just ignorant of their purpose. Especially having dots on the edge of the neck, you can essentially trace an invisible line from one side of the neck to the next. Welcome to my ignore list.

What a cool project. I’m curious about the process of finding the correct pitch for each note, especially higher on the neck. Is it mostly by ear or hand position or what? Seems like the basic fretless challenge is more complex here.

Thanks! As mentioned above markers are just reference points, so it’s a combination of muscle memory and ear. Gonna take a lot of practice before I’d ever bring it to a rehearsal, but I don’t think it’s a ton different from a monoscale fretless.

 

[darkkimhari]

It's finally there ! Congrats mate !

It actually looks great ! Too bad for the side dots, without this it was nearly a ace. It looks like the fretboard have been sanded a bit thinner than originally planned, so it brought the side dots more near to the border and as a result, they didn't rounded it as they were limited by the side dots. On the other parts of the neck, the side dots are deeper in the fretboard ? If it's like this all along it, rounding the corners of the ftreboard and letting them appear slightly on the front could potentially give it an interesting visual effect ?

Other than that, as said upper by DCGUY the fanfret, fretless, without fret markers looks like a crazy challenge to manage hahaha.

By the way, the stuffs on the fretboard giving away some brownish color dust. Couldn't it be an hardener or something like that as it is a fretless ?

 

[darkkimhari]

By the way 2, for the edges that are sharp, I saw some tutorials on youtube to do it with a screwdriver, just pushing slightly on it. As it doesn't remove materials (on the contrary of what sanding would do) but just flaten a bit the corners, that may potentially be your best bet. The side dots won't go through this way.

 

[Killing Floor]

It’s pretty.

 

[dedoonbass]

Looks neat and everything but seems like some pretty significant deficiencies for that much money. I would return it, but to each their own.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

fanned fretless?? how difficult is this to play in tune? would you do a gig with it tomorrow?

 

[ardgedee]

Too bad for the side dots, without this it was nearly a ace. It looks like the fretboard have been sanded a bit thinner than originally planned, so it brought the side dots more near to the border and as a result, they didn't rounded it as they were limited by the side dots.

The main problem is either the fretboard is too thin, or the dots are too large; the secondary problem is whoever installed them did not try too hard to be accurate. My guess is the dots were installed in the middle of the board thickness (at least, with however much precision they bothered) before it was cut to taper and radiused.

This is probably a glass-half-full thing to say, but really only the board edge by the high string needs to be rounded for playing comfort, where there are no dots. Unless you use your thumb to stop the low string, anyway.

 

[mikewalker]

That's a very cool experimental project, and I think you got your money's worth.
But I would approach playing this as five one-string fretless basses in a handy carrying case...

 

[J Posega]

Looks neat and everything but seems like some pretty significant deficiencies for that much money. I would return it, but to each their own.

I went into this knowing full well there would be some quirks to the end result. I’ve seen basses costing 10x as much ship out with various flaws, so these are really minor.

fanned fretless?? how difficult is this to play in tune? would you do a gig with it tomorrow?

i haven’t played any fretless for a couple years, so I wouldn’t even take a lined four string monoscale on a gig tomorrow. Unless it was an experimental noise jam. I don’t think it’s much harder to play in tune than a monoscale unlined fretless, although the high end of the fretboard is a bit trickier than the low and middle range.

 

[pingvuiini]

Gaugh! I play fretless exclusively, particularly 23" scale uke basses. A fanned fretless would probably discombobulate me, although I will confess I have been very curious about the whole fanned phenomenus (fretted and fretless) to the point where I would like to seriously give it a go. My main problem is that I am a lefty and it's hard enough to find anybody to make a lefty 'normal' bass let alone a fanned fretless.

As the OP has pointed out this is, as far as I know, a unique one-off instrument and perhaps first-of-its-kind. I will be checking back to read the OPs evaluations on the playing experience of this bass.

 

[J Posega]

Gaugh! I play fretless exclusively, particularly 23" scale uke basses. A fanned fretless would probably discombobulate me, although I will confess I have been very curious about the whole fanned phenomenus (fretted and fretless) to the point where I would like to seriously give it a go. My main problem is that I am a lefty and it's hard enough to find anybody to make a lefty 'normal' bass let alone a fanned fretless.

As the OP has pointed out this is, as far as I know, a unique one-off instrument and perhaps first-of-its-kind. I will be checking back to read the OPs evaluations on the playing experience of this bass.

There are certainly some compromises ordering from a shop on AliExpress but it’s really the only affordable option for stuff like this. Fanned frets are pretty easy to get used to and if you already play fretless and rely on your ear, you would probably be just fine.

don’t get me wrong, a Dingwall would have been well worth the money but I couldn’t stomach the idea of spending multiple thousands of dollars on a bass I wouldn’t be sure I’d end up being able to actually comfortably play in tune.

 

[J Posega]

By the way 2, for the edges that are sharp, I saw some tutorials on youtube to do it with a screwdriver, just pushing slightly on it. As it doesn't remove materials (on the contrary of what sanding would do) but just flaten a bit the corners, that may potentially be your best bet. The side dots won't go through this way.

The main problem is either the fretboard is too thin, or the dots are too large; the secondary problem is whoever installed them did not try too hard to be accurate. My guess is the dots were installed in the middle of the board thickness (at least, with however much precision they bothered) before it was cut to taper and radiused.

This is probably a glass-half-full thing to say, but really only the board edge by the high string needs to be rounded for playing comfort, where there are no dots. Unless you use your thumb to stop the low string, anyway.

The rest of the dots are perfectly in line and the board is equal thickness end to end, so I think the person that drilled for and installed the inlays just did a really sloppy job on the high end and then once the radius was put on the board it became a bit of a problem. It doesn’t impact playability at all and won’t cause any problems down the road, so it’s not a big deal, but I know some folks expect utter perfection because they think instruments are build 100% by CNC machines and haven’t watched a single video about the strengths and limitations of the tech.

And you’re right, I only need to round over the treble edge of the board. That’s a good tip on using a screwdriver; it makes sense that a piece of hardened metal would do the job on some (relatively) soft wood.

 

[Modulus 96]

Side dots are better than what I've seen on D'mark basses. Yours are round!

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I want one! But I must confess I'd order the sissy lines.
I played a fretted multiscale last week and although I can do it, I made a few mistakes based on 41 years of playing non crooked fingerboards.
A fanned unlined fretless might bring the boys with the butterfly nets once I cross the brink of sanity!

 

[JRA]

i read along in your other threads and i'm glad to finally see the real deal NBD: i think it's a very cool ax and i applaud your efforts to get the custom ax you wanted --- i also think you got a hell of a deal --- congratulations on your new instrument!

 

[J Posega]

I want one! But I must confess I'd order the sissy lines.
I played a fretted multiscale last week and although I can do it, I made a few mistakes based on 41 years of playing non crooked fingerboards.
A fanned unlined fretless might bring the boys with the butterfly nets once I cross the brink of sanity!

Something about my brain makes lined fretless more confusing. The lines become a distraction.

i read along in your other threads and i'm glad to finally see the real deal NBD: i think it's a very cool ax and i applaud your efforts to get the custom ax you wanted --- i also think you got a hell of a deal --- congratulations on your new instrument!

Thanks! It's been a bit of a rollercoaster but it's all worth it.