NCD!! I stood on the shoulders of giants and found my sound (Ampeg V4 4x12)

CTBassGuy

CTBassGuy

Feb 3, 2018
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Danbury, CT
#1
As I have mentioned in a few other threads, I have been looking to recreate the sound of my Carvin fretless, Ampeg V4B and V4 4x12 from 30-odd years ago. Well, I have finally done it. :hyper:
IMG_1811.JPG


I picked up a '73 era Ampeg V4 4x12 cabinet from Guitar Center about 2 months ago, and found that it had 3 original CTS 8 Ohm speakers and one replaced with a Peavey Scorpion. The cabinet and tolex were in good shape, just a few peeling edges that a little bit of super glue will fix. However, the Peavey had 3 rips/holes in it, so it needed to be replaced. I got Guitar Center to refund me $50 from the price I paid to compensate for the bad driver, and I then went on a quest to find a suitable replacement.
IMG_1645.JPG IMG_1679.JPG IMG_1687.JPG

Naturally, TalkBass had nearly all the answers I needed (thank yous below).

Seeing as I already had an Ampeg V4B (new reissue) and 2 SVT 210AVs, I figured I wanted a 4 Ohm cab to compliment the 4 Ohm load presented by the 2 210s, for a total of 2 Ohm. For whatever reason it is nearly impossible to find 4 Ohm 12" bass speakers, so I placed a custom order with Eminence for 4 Basslite S2012s at 4 Ohm each. It took about a month and a half to get them, but they came in on Friday.

Holy cr@p, these things sound awesome!!! Deep, round, tight, and full. AND they weigh less than 4 lbs a piece vs the 7 3/4 of the original CTS. The cab itself weighs in at 47 lbs, so with the new speakers it's around 65 lbs.

Eminence did a great job on the custom Basslites, and the new drivers in the cab presented just over 4 Ohms (2.9 Ohm on a DC multimeter) wired in series/parallel. Each driver showed 2.7 or 2.8, so I think the final 2.9 was due to the added speaker cable with the original 4-pin XLR connector (thanks to Fliptops.net).
IMG_1805.JPGIMG_1804.JPGIMG_1803.JPGIMG_1807.JPGIMG_1808.JPG IMG_1810.JPG

Thank you to all the TalkBass giants on whose shoulders I stood. Thanks to you and TalkBass, I have finally gotten what I have wanted in a bass rig since I left high school (more years ago than I care to count). They are:
@johnk_10 (a Giant amongst Giants)
@Jimmy Riot
@rllefebv
@dubstylee
@big stubby
@jastacey
@Jazz_bass2664
@denton57
@beans-on-toast
@JimmyM
@funkytoe

I may have left off a few, and if I did miss anyone who has done this mod and posted about it on TalkBass, I'm sure I read your post over the past couple of months. Thank you to you as well.

And because more Ampeg is better, I present to you, my Wall of Sound. :cool:
The combined 3 cabinets with the V4B sound absolutely amazing. I'm sure I will never play this rig like this out anywhere, as it's pretty top heavy, but boy it looks sexy!
IMG_1815.JPG

Just for fun specs, the V4 cab with Basslites is 600w RMS (150w x 4), so with the 2 210avs at 200w RMS each, this bad boy can do 1000w RMS. I'd bet this would give any SVT810 a run for its money. AND I put the V4 cab together for less than an SVT212AV would have cost, so the entire cabinet set was less than an SVT810AV (and a lot more portable :D) :bassist:
 
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#5
CTBassGuy said:
As I have mentioned in a few other threads, I have been looking to recreate the sound of my Carvin fretless, Ampeg V4B and V4 4x12 from 30-odd years ago. Well, I have finally done it. :hyper:
View attachment 3090429

I picked up a '73 era Ampeg V4 4x12 cabinet from Guitar Center about 2 months ago, and found that it had 3 original CTS 8 Ohm speakers and one replaced with a Peavey Scorpion. The cabinet and tolex were in good shape, just a few peeling edges that a little bit of super glue will fix. However, the Peavey had 3 rips/holes in it, so it needed to be replaced. I got Guitar Center to refund me $50 from the price I paid to compensate for the bad driver, and I then went on a quest to find a suitable replacement.
View attachment 3090484 View attachment 3090490 View attachment 3090491

Naturally, TalkBass had nearly all the answers I needed (thank yous below).

Seeing as I already had an Ampeg V4B (new reissue) and 2 SVT 210AVs, I figured I wanted a 4 Ohm cab to compliment the 4 Ohm load presented by the 2 210s, for a total of 2 Ohm. For whatever reason it is nearly impossible to find 4 Ohm 12" bass speakers, so I placed a custom order with Eminence for 4 Basslite S2012s at 4 Ohm each. It took about a month and a half to get them, but they came in on Friday.

Holy cr@p, these things sound awesome!!! Deep, round, tight, and full. AND they weigh less than 4 lbs a piece vs the 7 3/4 of the original CTS. The cab itself weighs in at 47 lbs, so with the new speakers it's around 65 lbs.

Eminence did a great job on the custom Basslites, and the new drivers in the cab presented just over 4 Ohms (2.9 Ohm on a DC multimeter) wired in series/parallel. Each driver showed 2.7 or 2.8, so I think the final 2.9 was due to the added speaker cable with the original 4-pin XLR connector (thanks to Fliptops.net).
View attachment 3090434View attachment 3090435View attachment 3090437View attachment 3090443View attachment 3090475 View attachment 3090453

Thank you to all the TalkBass giants on whose shoulders I stood. Thanks to you and TalkBass, I have finally gotten what I have wanted in a bass rig since I left high school (more years ago than I care to count). They are:
@johnk_10 (a Giant amongst Giants)
@Jimmy Riot
@rllefebv
@dubstylee
@big stubby
@jastacey
@Jazz_bass2664
@denton57
@beans-on-toast
@JimmyM
@dubstylee
@funkytoe

I may have left off a few, and if I did miss anyone who has done this mod and posted about it on TalkBass, I'm sure I read your post over the past couple of months. Thank you to you as well.

And because more Ampeg is better, I present to you, my Wall of Sound. :cool:
The combined 3 cabinets with the V4B sound absolutely amazing. I'm sure I will never play this rig like this out anywhere, as it's pretty top heavy, but boy it looks sexy!
View attachment 3090483
Just for fun specs, the V4 cab with Basslites is 600w RMS (150w x 4), so with the 2 210avs at 200w RMS each, this bad boy can do 1000w RMS. I'd bet this would give any SVT810 a run for its money. AND I put the V4 cab together for less than an SVT212AV would have cost, so the entire cabinet set was less than an SVT810AV (and a lot more portable :D) :bassist:
Click to expand...

Excellent score for you! There's nothing better than fulfilling a dream from a long time ago! Congrats!:thumbsup:
 
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#7
CTBassGuy said:
Just for fun specs, the V4 cab with Basslites is 600w RMS (150w x 4), so with the 2 210avs at 200w RMS each, this bad boy can do 1000w RMS.
Click to expand...

Make that 800w, since the current from the amp is not smart enough to split 40/60 between the 2 sets of cabs. So it gets split 50/50 and you're limited by the lesser "side", being the 210s (400w), times 2 (for 800w). If you had 2 of the 4x12s with the same drivers, then they could handle a combined 1200w. Not really a concern with your 100w tube amp though.

Anyway, you might try stacking the 210s on their sides for more stability.
 
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#9
Omega Monkey said:
Make that 800w, since the current from the amp is not smart enough to split 40/60 between the 2 sets of cabs. So it gets split 50/50 and you're limited by the lesser "side", being the 210s (400w), times 2 (for 800w). If you had 2 of the 4x12s with the same drivers, then they could handle a combined 1200w. Not really a concern with your 100w tube amp though.

Anyway, you might try stacking the 210s on their sides for more stability.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the correction @Omega Monkey; good to know should I want to do a high-power class D, or the like, down the road.

Agreed as well on the side-stacking of the 210s; that may help. I did find that the 4x12 next to the 2 210s stacked vertically was not a huge difference, so that’s another possibility.
 
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#11
CTBassGuy said:
:roflmao: Fair enough @BassmanPaul; I’ll get a new Family Photo together tonight to share.
Click to expand...

Mine is a lined LB76F in Koa oil rubbed. When I got it I thought that is shared the weakness of the first six I bought LB76 in White. The two out side strings were a little weaker than the rest as the J sized pickups didn’t have enough magnet under them. I had EMG soap bars fitted which improved the sound no end.
 
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#12
BassmanPaul said:
When I got it I thought that is shared the weakness of the first six I bought LB76 in White. The two out side strings were a little weaker than the rest as the J sized pickups didn’t have enough magnet under them.
Click to expand...

I got lucky, as my 1988 was one of the few years that Carvin used the H13B humbuckers that had 2 more poles than the older H11 series. This pickup dealt with the volume issue on the outer strings. For whatever reason, Carvin moved away from the H13 after only a couple of years, and the issue resurfaced.

There is a beautiful LB60 in Koa on reverb right now, but it has the H11s, so I’d be a bit concerned about the behavior you described.
 
#13
i’m happy enough with my bass right now. Funnily, a couple of weeks ago I was thunderstruck to find that my bridge pickup was dead. I swapped the two over and the pickup was fine in the neck position. My stuff going wrong is unusual for me. My work just doesn’t fail. I had modified the electronics when the EMGs were installed. I eventually traced it to the blend pot and it’s PCB. With it installed in the bass the bridge pickup is silent. Lifted out it works just fine. Obviously something is shorting to the copper shielding when it’s in place. I cut a wide piece of shrink tubing, cut a notch for the pot bushing, slit the tube to make it flat and installed it between the pot and the copper. Now it’s working properly. Thing is, it’s been working like it should for about Twenty years and hundreds of gigs! Things that make you scratch your head! :banghead:
 
#17
Just as a quick follow up, I took the V4B and V4 cab rig to rehearsal a couple of nights ago, and when I played the first couple of notes to warm up, our BL said, “Oh, I like it already”. It sounded awesome on everything.

AND I could carry it from and to my car, up a set of stairs and into the practice space (about 40 yards total distance one way) without getting winded or breaking my back. It weighs less than my 8yr old son. :hyper: I do want to build an Ampeg style dolly for it though, just for that additional ease of schlepping.

It was funny to see everyone’s face when I dead lifted it though...:D
 
#18
I love your setup! I have sort of a silly question... I own an old v4 head and v4 cab with stock speakers. I will play it with the stock speakers for a short time (just got the head completely rebuilt). I actually loved how it sounded. Question is about the 210 cabs. I think I want to put in new speakers in the v4 cab, but keep it 8 ohm, then maybe run 1 additional 8 ohm svt210 cab.
I use a fender rumble 200 and I have a Peavey 210 that I use with it currently for my band practice. So.... My end goal is to keep the fender rumble 200 and run an svt210 for the additional speaker instead of the peavey, IF and only if running the svt210 cab(or cabs) with the v4 cab will function decently.. I'm guessing it won't work so well because it will split the power between just the v4 cab and one svt210 cab. It may be a waste if money to put over 400 dollars in speakers in the v4 cab if I'm going to use half of the wattage in just one SVT 210 cab. Or potentially 2 svt 210 cabs)

So.... Is it better to run the 2-210 cabs with the v4 cab? (So then wire the v4 cab 4 ohm)
do you like the addition of the 2-210s?

Should I save my money, keep the stock speakers in the v4 cab, and buy 2-svt 210 cabs?
My concern is.. Spending a bunch of money on my v4 cab to add higher quality speakers and also spending a bunch of money on multiple svt210 cabs (which seem to be a lower end speaker setup based on my research)

Or do I just rebuild my v4 cab and forget the whole 210 thing?

sorry for the run on questions!
I only brought it up because I was thinking about ditching the heavier (and uglier Peavey with a lighter Fender rumble 210)
I was thinking I could kill two birds with one stone and buy the svt210 and use it for my practice rig and v4 rig.
Thoughts?
 
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#19
Mcboomport said:
I love your setup!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Mcboomport said:
So.... Is it better to run the 2-210 cabs with the v4 cab? (So then wire the v4 cab 4 ohm)
do you like the addition of the 2-210s?
Click to expand...

Honestly, at this point I have not had a reason, other than initial testing, to run both the V4 cab and the 2 svt210avs together. The V4 provides all the volume I need. I do find that I prefer the V4 over the svt210avs for tone. It is bigger, rounder and has just more presence to my ears. As such, I don’t mind carrying it around, now that it is only about 65 lbs with the new speakers in it.

Mcboomport said:
Should I save my money, keep the stock speakers in the v4 cab, and buy 2-svt 210 cabs?
My concern is.. Spending a bunch of money on my v4 cab to add higher quality speakers and also spending a bunch of money on multiple svt210 cabs (which seem to be a lower end speaker setup based on my research)

Or do I just rebuild my v4 cab and forget the whole 210 thing?

sorry for the run on questions!
I only brought it up because I was thinking about ditching the heavier (and uglier Peavey with a lighter Fender rumble 210)
I was thinking I could kill two birds with one stone and buy the svt210 and use it for my practice rig and v4 rig.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Given your explaination, I would probably do this:
1) Keep the V4 stock speakers for now
2) Replace the Peavey with 1 svt210av for ease of portability, etc
3) Play the V4 amp through the single svt210av and see what you think. It will likely be enough volume for practice and small gigs, if you want a lighter load in and out vs the V4 cab
4) Once you do the above, consider replacing the V4 speakers if you feel that tone or volume are wanting

Of note, my upgraded V4 is louder (i.e. more efficient) than the 2 svt210avs together at the same settings.

I would not likely run the V4 and one svt210av together, as you correctly described, the 2 drivers in the svt210av will get 1/4 the power each, and the drivers in the V4 will get 1/8 power each.

I hope this helps.
 
#20
Thank you sir!!
That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I was hoping your V4 cab sounded better (to you) than the 2 svt210s. And.. I was hoping it could get plenty loud enough! My guitarist plays stupid loud and my drummer is hits hard as hell! Sounds like I'll be okay with what I'm doing.

I am basically just trying to not experiment and buy a bunch of "entry level" gear for my lightweight rig. And i'm not trying to be a "gear head in general". I have enough collections of cool stuff. I bought the Rumble 200 based on the fact that my music shop had one and it was my first amp purchase. I love how light it is and how easy it is to transport. It wasn't loud enough, so i found a cheap Peavey 210. I honestly think the setup sounds fine and gets loud enough, the 210 cab is just a little bit awkward and heavy(and looks dumb, ha).

As far as my current v4 setup. I just purchased the V4 with cab and I freaking love it! It took me a year to find something that interested me enough that wasn't an SVT and 8-10s. (I don't think I will need a powerful setup like that for a long time, if ever.) I'm probably going to go the route of the neo speakers so this v4 setup becomes more of my mobile setup.

Thanks again! Lance
 
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