Need Advice / Input on premaps for Jazz / Jag

[jamesczar]

JAZZ
So I have a FrankenJazz built from a MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe V, with a John East J-Retro 01 Deluxe preamp. In general, I've liked the J-Retro. I use LaBella Deep Talkin' Flats on most of my electric basses, and want them on my Jazz specifically.

The problem is that I think the J-Retro is not really made for flats... all the clips/videos to listen to online are with rounds, and although I like the J-retro with my flats somewhat, I think it's too dark (and maybe a touch too muddy) to use with flats. I think I'd rather have something that brings out a bit more of the nuances of the LaBellas than the John East.

I have a Carvin LB75 custom that I use the same LaBella flats on, and I think the factory Carvin pre on that brings out a lot more detail and nuance from the flats than the J-retro does. I'm very impressed with the Carvin preamp, and assumed I'd be replacing it not long after my purchase based on many posts here and elsewhere, but I'm almost 2 years out from it coming home and I still really like it as is.

I really liked the J-Retro at first because it was such a huge improvement over the factory Fender MIM active pre that was on the Jazz, but since buying the Carvin and switching between them with the same set of strings into the same amp at gigs, I'm no longer that elated with the J-Retro on the Jazz with my favorite flats.

JAG
Sooo... I'm also currently re-building a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar V into a sparkly surf-style inspired bass (well, late 60s / early 70s surf/funk style, I guess, to be more precise)... deep gold flake sparkle for the body, pearloid blocks on the neck, pearloid pickguard, chrome hardware, etc. Something like this:

In the process, I'm replacing the electronics that came on it and installing a new preamp and new pickups. I'm planning on using LaBella quarter-rounds, which give more of a roundwound brightness, but don't have as much finger noise and clack as full rounds.

I am thinking that perhaps the J-Retro would be better on the Jag bass with the more roundish strings, and that I might just move it over there. I'll probably do so just to try it -- at least -- before spending money on two new preamps (it should drop right in to the VM Jag control cavity).

- Any thoughts on the J-Retro Deluxe on a PJ configuration?

- Any thoughts on the J-Retro on rounds vs. flats?

- Any suggestions on a preamp that works great with jazz pickups and flats?
I heard in another post that Bartolini preamps work nice with flats.

- Anyone have a pickup that they really like with flats? (I have to replace both the P & J in the Jag.)

Thanks for your input on any of the above!

 

[jamesczar]

Any thoughts on the J-Retro Deluxe on a PJ configuration?

- Any thoughts on the J-Retro on rounds vs. flats?

- Any suggestions on a preamp that works great with jazz pickups and flats?
I heard in another post that Bartolini preamps work nice with flats.

- Anyone have a pickup that they really like with flats? (I have to replace both the P & J in the Jag.)

Nothing? No one with any answers/advice?

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Do you REALLY need a preamp?

IMO best preamp for flats = no preamp.

Indeed, preamps tend to widen the frequency range of a bass whereas flats seem to thrive in a narrower frequency range where they deliver their thump/punch. With flats, frequencies above 2.5Khz and lower than 60Hz tend to sound pretty bad making the bass muddy especially in the mix. Also, unlike for a bass with rounds, a bass with flat usually requires almost no eq. I learned that from doing a lot of studio work and producing music. When I mix a passive Pbass or Jazz Bass with flats I use a high-pass filter at 60Hz, a low-pass filter at 2.5khz and just boost 100Hz by 2-3db sometimes slightly scooping the mids by 1-2db around 800Hz using a wide Q (especially for Reggae) . It gives a huge amount of definition and punch to the bass and fits better in the mix.

If I were you, I'd start with just wiring the bass VVT (if you have extra knobs, leave them in place without being connected - I did that on my Fender AM Deluxe turned passive. You are the only one who knows it is not connected anyway and who cares)

If you insist of having a preamp, something totally transparent like an Audere. But again what is the point especially if you don't need the eq section and it will still extend the frequency range emphasizing unnecessary frequencies.

 

[jamesczar]

Do you REALLY need a preamp?

IMO best preamp for flats = no preamp.

Indeed, preamps tend to widen the frequency range of a bass whereas flats seem to thrive in a narrower frequency range where they deliver their thump/punch. With flats, frequencies above 2.5Khz and lower than 60Hz tend to sound pretty bad making the bass muddy especially in the mix. Also, unlike for a bass with rounds, a bass with flat usually requires almost no eq. I learned that from doing a lot of studio work and producing music. When I mix a passive Pbass or Jazz Bass with flats I use a high-pass filter at 60Hz, a low-pass filter at 2.5khz and just boost 100Hz by 2-3db sometimes slightly scooping the mids by 1-2db around 800Hz using a wide Q (especially for Reggae) . It gives a huge amount of definition and punch to the bass and fits better in the mix.

If I were you, I'd start with just wiring the bass VVT (if you have extra knobs, leave them in place without being connected - I did that on my Fender AM Deluxe turned passive. You are the only one who knows it is not connected anyway and who cares)

If you insist of having a preamp, something totally transparent like an Audere. But again what is the point especially if you don't need the eq section and it will still extend the frequency range emphasizing unnecessary frequencies.

Frenchy, you make some great points here, and if I can get my hands on some spare control knows for that kind of setup, I may give it a try for the heck of it. But I doubt it will be enough control and offer enough tonal variation for my needs.

However, I like to have the control to make some EQ tweaks beyond a simple tone knob (and I hate VV setups - I'm a blend knob guy - why turn 2 knobs when you can turn one quicker). Right now I have a preamp on my Carvin that I like a great deal with my LaBella flats, and I'm getting a great variety of usable tones with the combination.

In both bands I play in, I have many songs (mostly originals) in an average set that require completely different sounds from each other. With the Carvin (and even somewhat with the J.East in the Jazz) I'm able to dial in a psuedo-Stingray vibe, a classic jazz vibe, and many other diverse sound profiles that match up to the different songs' needs. I'm even able to dial in some sounds that make it seem like I'm playing with roundwounds. (Mind you, these may not be so precise-sounding under close scrutiny, but they are great in live situations within the mix. Even alone they are pleasing tones.)

I need far more of a Swiss Army knife of a preamp than what a simple passive tone control could do for me.

I'll def look into the Audere, and see if I can test-drive one. Thanks.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Personally I tend to use stuff like a Jazz Bass with a preamp and rounds when I need versatility but my instruments strung with flats (I also use LaBella Deep Talkin') are more used in a one-trick pony context. I record a lot of reggae. Although Family Man himself is using an active Deluxe Jazz Bass with flats those days. In my case, passive with almost no eq always feels perfect to me. I especially dislike bristling highs with flatwound strings.

By the way, change the bridge saddles on your Squier using some bridge saddles for USA made instruments (you can buy that through basspartresource.com) It is a super cheap mod that instantly kills the harshness in the highs and makes the bass sound much better. I was amazed when I did it on my Squier VM.

 

[MoeTown1986]

I vote trying an Audere. I have them on both of my jazzes and absolutely love them.

 

[jamesczar]

By the way, change the bridge saddles on your Squier using some bridge saddles for USA made instruments (you can buy that through basspartresource.com) It is a super cheap mod that instantly kills the harshness in the highs and makes the bass sound much better. I was amazed when I did it on my Squier VM.

Don't worry, I never use any of the stock Fender/Squier bridges. I don't like them at all. I usually use high-mass Schaller roller bridges (like I have on the FrankenJazz), but I'm thinking about putting a Babicz bridge on the Jag to try it out.

However, I'm very tempted by the Hipshot bridge (I like it on my Carvin) because of the quick release string feature, since I'll be running rounds or quarter rounds on the Jag and it'll make changes much easier.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Those Schaller bridges really sound tight and punchy and not bristling like a Badass (nothing worse with flat). I have a hipshot on a bass, it sounds great too and indeed makes it super fast to replace your strings.

Now, I purposedly keep the bent plate bridges on my Fender with flats as they have less sustain and more thump for that old school vibe. The material of the saddles does change the sound significantly.

 

[jamesczar]

Yeah, Frenchy, if I was going for just the vintage vibe with the flats, I'd probably go with that bent plate. But I'm looking for a bunch of different options, so sustain is good.

I can always kill sustain (foam, palm, etc.), but I can't create it if the hardware lessens it. It's such a minor difference anyway. I'm probably gonna end up with the Hipshot for the convenience over everything.

But damn, that Schaller 3D bridge and the Schaller 2000 really look nice.