Out of phase problem, HELP!

BassMatter23

BassMatter23

Oct 30, 2018
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4,551
#1
Hi guys,
So I’m running a Darkglass 900w at 4ohms into 2 DNA 112 cabs rated 450w at 8ohms. Both cabs stand alone sound as they should, full, crossover, tweeter, everything is perfect.
But when I daisy chain them, the bass drops out, both cabs speak but no bass, just mids and highs.
I opened them up, checked the leads in case of possible reversed wiring, everything is connected properly.
I’m using 2 NL2 speakon cables, one from the amp to the first cab and the other from the first cab to the second cab. I’ve daisy chained before on other cab pairings and never had this problem. I’m at a complete loss of what is causing this ‘out of phase’ symptom.
Any insight? If anyone has experience with this I would very much appreciate your diagnosis and help to solve the matter.
Matt
 
#4
Rick James said:
Something is reversed. It's either the cable between the cabs or the cabs. You have to be sure every +1 Speakon pole is connected, in the cabs and in the cables. A continuity tester is the easiest way to do it.
Click to expand...
Thanks Rick,
In the cabs connections are good as I checked the +1 speakon poles, in the cables, no idea. How do you go about checking or testing this up in a cable?
 
#5
A continuity tester has two leads. Touch one lead to the +1 pole on one end of the cable, touch the other lead to the +1 pole on the other end. It should beep. If not touch the second lead to the -1 pole of the second connector. If that beeps the cable is mis-wired. You can by a stand alone continuity tester, or a digital multimeter that has one. If the cable is OK do the same test on the speakons on the cabs.
 
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#6
mmbongo said:
Well, you've checked both cabs wiring and they are correct so it's not the cabs.
You're using a single output from the amp, so it's not the amp.

That leaves....the speaker cables. Try new cables.
Click to expand...
Rick James said:
A continuity tester has two leads. Touch one lead to the +1 pole on one end of the cable, touch the other lead to the +1 pole on the other end. It should beep. If not touch the second lead to the -1 pole of the second connector. If that beeps the cable is mis-wired. You can by a stand alone continuity tester, or a digital multimeter that has one. If the cable is OK do the same test on the speakons on the cabs.
Click to expand...
Will do and chime in with results. First I have to another multimeter as the one I currently have doesn’t have a continuity setting. Thanks again Rick!
 
#7
You don’t need to buy a new meter. Do the same test with the meter set to resistance (ohms). If the wire is made right, when you touch the leads to the 1+ at each end, the meter should read a low number like 10. If it’s connected wrong, it will read off scale, very high, more than 10,000.
 
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#10
Tested it all, and all is proper.
And I happen to solve the problem too.
I inverted the lead on one of the cab, not only the combo now is in full force but as a stand alone it still sounds exactly the same. I took the time to play with the leads ‘right’ and inverted on the stand alone to make sure I wasn’t making this up with my ear. Identical either way. Makes no sense to me at all but it works. Thanks again everyone for all your input!
 
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#12
BassMatter23 said:
Tested it all, and all is proper.
And I happen to solve the problem too.
I inverted the lead on one of the cab, not only the combo now is in full force but as a stand alone it still sounds exactly the same...
Click to expand...
Of course. Any driver all by itself will sound the same as-is and after you change the polarity.

Now, here comes the difficult and confusing issue. If there is a crossover and additional drivers in the cab, the polarity of the woofer does play a role in what happens at the x-over point. So the polarity of the woofer in relation to the crossover has to be verified as correct.

So was it just the woofer that was wired wrong, or the entire cab?

You mentioned you changed the polarity of the entire cab, but it may have been just the woofer that was incorrect. It does make a difference, as if it was just the woofer that was wrong, and you changed the polarity of the entire cab, (in addition to issues at the x-over point mentioned earlier), now the tweeters will be out of phase with the tweeters in the other cab. And which cab was the wrong one? You may have ‘fixed’ the correct cab.
 
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#14
9Thumbs said:
I hate to be "that guy", but I have been using plain Jane 1/4 inch phone plugs for 45 years, and never, ever, had any confusion or problems.
Click to expand...
You have been somewhat luckier than others who weren't so lucky.

His problem is no different than what we see with 1/4" connections either, reversed wiring can occur regardless of connector.
 
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#15
BassMatter23 said:
Tested it all, and all is proper.
And I happen to solve the problem too.
I inverted the lead on one of the cab, not only the combo now is in full force but as a stand alone it still sounds exactly the same. I took the time to play with the leads ‘right’ and inverted on the stand alone to make sure I wasn’t making this up with my ear. Identical either way. Makes no sense to me at all but it works. Thanks again everyone for all your input!
Click to expand...
Your next step is to confirm the both cabinets conform to industry standards. Search on speaker battery test here on TB. Otherwise, thebissue will tear its ugly head down the road with a different combination.
 
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#17
Reverse the polarity at one speaker.
If it sounds better, you’re done :-)

Actually— do the battery test, one cabinet/ cable combination at a time .
With the same polarity at the battery, each speaker/cable combination should make the cone move out or in, but not different for each speaker.
 
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#18
Make sure the LF units are symmetrical, that is, the + terminal is wired to the same side of the voice coil on each. Ignore the terminal colors, they maybe swapped. This is very rare.
Then check the polarity of the wires from the crossover to the LF unit. They may be reversed.
Bottom line is a positive voltage applied to the Speakon pin 1 should result in a forward (outward) displacement of the cone. A 9v battery is most convenient for conducting this test. Use the same cable to conduct this test with each cabinet.

As others have said, all elements in the cab must be in phase with each other, then verify that separate cabs are phase cohesive.
Best of luck.
 
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#19
john m said:
Reverse the polarity at one speaker.
If it sounds better, you’re done :)

Actually— do the battery test, one cabinet/ cable combination at a time .
With the same polarity at the battery, each speaker/cable combination should make the cone move out or in, but not different for each speaker.
Click to expand...
No, the cabinets need to conform to the industry standard of positive voltage = cone moving outward so that down the road they won't perpetuate this issue.
 
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