P bass pickup vs Soapbar P pickup vs Neck Dual Coil

Joblivion

Joblivion

Jan 30, 2020
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Toronto, ON
#1
Hey Y'all,

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering what the difference is between the classic p pickup and soapbar p pickups. I know for starters you can't adjust the pup height for each string on the soapbar p. Besides this, are there any major differences?

Also, what is the difference in sound between a neck dual coil pickup and a classic p bass pickup in terms of sound. Can they sound close to each other?
 
#2
1. Depends on the particular “soapbar P”. To my ears, the EMG 35P does a pretty good job capturing that honky midrange that the P has (with added clarity from the buffering). Other manufacturers make soapbars with staggered coils, but if the coils themselves are not short and squat, they won’t capture as much of that sound.

2. Dual coils are very different than split coils. Dual coils have two coils that extend the entire length of the pickup. Each string is sensed twice, once by each coil. This means that there is comb filtering in the upper frequencies, and reinforcing in the lower frequencies, yielding a fatter tone. A true split coil will sense each string only once, avoiding the comb filtering, and providing a more faithful rendition of the string’s movement/tone. At the neck, I prefer a single sensing point (narrow aperture), moderate output pickup, since that position is already plenty thick and boomy. Likewise, I prefer a dual-coil near the bridge, as the fatter tone helps offset the plinky signal that the strings provide there.
 
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#3
ctmullins said:
1. Depends on the particular “soapbar P”. To my ears, the EMG 35P does a pretty good job capturing that honky midrange that the P has (with added clarity from the buffering). Other manufacturers make soapbars with staggered coils, but if the coils themselves are not short and squat, they won’t capture as much of that sound.

2. Dual coils are very different than split coils. Dual coils have two coils that extend the entire length of the pickup. Each string is sensed twice, once by each coil. This means that there is comb filtering in the upper frequencies, and reinforcing in the lower frequencies, yielding a fatter tone. A true split coil will sense each string only once, avoiding the comb filtering, and providing a more faithful rendition of the string’s movement/tone. At the neck, I prefer a single sensing point (narrow aperture), moderate output pickup, since that position is already plenty thick and boomy. Likewise, I prefer a dual-coil near the bridge, as the fatter tone helps offset the plinky signal that the strings provide there.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. How would a stacked single (Dummy Coil Underneath Single) compare to a p pickup?
 
#4
Joblivion said:
Makes sense. How would a stacked single (Dummy Coil Underneath Single) compare to a p pickup?
Click to expand...

Again, coil shape is a factor. If the top coil is short and fat, that’s half the recipe. Not all stacked singles will have short/fat coils. But it will have the single sensing aspect.
 
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#5
ctmullins said:
1. Depends on the particular “soapbar P”. To my ears, the EMG 35P does a pretty good job capturing that honky midrange that the P has (with added clarity from the buffering). Other manufacturers make soapbars with staggered coils, but if the coils themselves are not short and squat, they won’t capture as much of that sound.

2. Dual coils are very different than split coils. Dual coils have two coils that extend the entire length of the pickup. Each string is sensed twice, once by each coil. This means that there is comb filtering in the upper frequencies, and reinforcing in the lower frequencies, yielding a fatter tone. A true split coil will sense each string only once, avoiding the comb filtering, and providing a more faithful rendition of the string’s movement/tone. At the neck, I prefer a single sensing point (narrow aperture), moderate output pickup, since that position is already plenty thick and boomy. Likewise, I prefer a dual-coil near the bridge, as the fatter tone helps offset the plinky signal that the strings provide there.
Click to expand...

I actually also prefer split coil in the neck as well but the problem I had was blending the two pickups together. I got another TWX and found that the two together sound better than my 40 pcsx combined with the TWX. They both sound amazing separate though.
 
#6
ctmullins said:
1. Depends on the particular “soapbar P”. To my ears, the EMG 35P does a pretty good job capturing that honky midrange that the P has (with added clarity from the buffering). Other manufacturers make soapbars with staggered coils, but if the coils themselves are not short and squat, they won’t capture as much of that sound.

2. Dual coils are very different than split coils. Dual coils have two coils that extend the entire length of the pickup. Each string is sensed twice, once by each coil. This means that there is comb filtering in the upper frequencies, and reinforcing in the lower frequencies, yielding a fatter tone. A true split coil will sense each string only once, avoiding the comb filtering, and providing a more faithful rendition of the string’s movement/tone. At the neck, I prefer a single sensing point (narrow aperture), moderate output pickup, since that position is already plenty thick and boomy. Likewise, I prefer a dual-coil near the bridge, as the fatter tone helps offset the plinky signal that the strings provide there.
Click to expand...
I agree with your description in 2. Don't you have a bass with a Nordy Big Split in the neck and Dual Coil in the bridge? I bet that would sound good, especially with a series/parallel switch for the dual coil and a blend to adjust neck/bridge balance.
 
#8
Joblivion said:
Is it possible to make a humbucker pickup sound like a p pickup or is it asking for too much? Ca eq get you close if its not possible for a 100% match???
Click to expand...
Others will disagree, but in my opinion and experience, you can get close by
  • Placing the humbucker in the P pickup position (mid-body), and
  • EQing with a boost in the low mids, and a cut in the lows and the highs
 
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#9
I've got a Warmoth bass that I put together. It's got a quad coil soapbar pickup in the neck position. I wired the switch so I've got Series/ P/ parallel. It's humbucking in all positions. The tonal differences are noticeable. Series definitely has a fuller sound. Parallel has a brighter tone. I'm able to approach a convincing split coil P-bass tone in either the series or parallel mode using the onboard pre-amp (3 band eq with sweepable mids). Moral of this story is yes, you ought to be able to approach a P-bass tone with a humbucking soapbar depending on your eq set-up and assuming it's placed in the P-bass sweet spot.
 
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#10
BaileyMan said:
I've got a Warmoth bass that I put together. It's got a quad coil soapbar pickup in the neck position. I wired the switch so I've got Series/ P/ parallel. It's humbucking in all positions. The tonal differences are noticeable. Series definitely has a fuller sound. Parallel has a brighter tone. I'm able to approach a convincing split coil P-bass tone in either the series or parallel mode using the onboard pre-amp (3 band eq with sweepable mids). Moral of this story is yes, you ought to be able to approach a P-bass tone with a humbucking soapbar depending on your eq set-up and assuming it's placed in the P-bass sweet spot.
Click to expand...

I do have a pre-amp with sweepable mids with so I'll experiment.
 
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#14
ctmullins said:
Others will disagree, but in my opinion and experience, you can get close by
  • Placing the humbucker in the P pickup position (mid-body), and
  • EQing with a boost in the low mids, and a cut in the lows and the highs
Click to expand...
Is this similar for the music man pickup placement as well? I have the same soapbar in the bridge and was wondering if I can kind of make that sound somewhat happen with EQ??? It unfortunately is quite close to the bridge :/
 
#15
Joblivion said:
Is this similar for the music man pickup placement as well? I have the same soapbar in the bridge and was wondering if I can kind of make that sound somewhat happen with EQ??? It unfortunately is quite close to the bridge :/
Click to expand...

Depends on the soapbar. The MM tone recipe is a relatively low-output humbucker wired in parallel and placed in the famous “sweet spot”, coupled with the unique preamp that does a whole lot more boosting than cutting, and isn’t a simple shelving circuit. If your humbucker is (or can be) wired in parallel, and if you place it in (or very near) the MM sweet spot, and if you have a two-band preamp with a lot of deep lows and a sizzly top end, then yeah, you can probably get close. But not if it’s jammed up next to the bridge - you lose too much midrange that way.
 
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#16
If pickups allow it, it may be easiest to get the MM sound by combining the neck coil of the bridge pickup with the bridge coil or the neck pickup (assuming both are dual coil humbuckers). How close that might get you depends on the exact spacing between the pickups - the further apart they are, the more comb filtering/scoop shifts towards the mids.

Obviously other design differences matter too, but to my ears pickup placement is a big part of sonic signature of many basses.

It’s relatively easy to get a solid P-type tone out of almost any pickup in the approximate P position. That area seems less sensitive to exact placement and pickup type, but things can get quite a bit different as you move towards the bridge.

The closest I’ve heard a soapbar sound to a P is Nordstrand Big Split.
 
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