Pickups causing fret buzz

F

F Brock

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Aug 6, 2016
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#1
Hi there,

Just finished building a 5 string bass and I am scratching my head with a strange fret buzz issue. I leveled the frets , strung the bass up and it played very well with a nice low action and no fret buzz. After putting the pickups in it started buzzing like crazy. Took the neck pickup out( pickups are in standard J bass position) and the fret buzz went away. Put a set of pickups in from a different manufacturer and still same problem. Bass has nickel would Ken Smith strings. I have set the pick ups very low ( to low ) and still the problem. Take the neck pickup out and the fret buzz disapears? Thoughts?
 
#2
F Brock said:
Hi there,

Just finished building a 5 string bass and I am scratching my head with a strange fret buzz issue. I leveled the frets , strung the bass up and it played very well with a nice low action and no fret buzz. After putting the pickups in it started buzzing like crazy. Took the neck pickup out( pickups are in standard J bass position) and the fret buzz went away. Put a set of pickups in from a different manufacturer and still same problem. Bass has nickel would Ken Smith strings. I have set the pick ups very low ( to low ) and still the problem. Take the neck pickup out and the fret buzz disapears? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Picture? I'd say it's probably the pickup being too high.
 
#3
Will_White said:
Picture? I'd say it's probably the pickup being too high.
Click to expand...
If you read my post carefully you will see that I lowered the pickups all the way down and it still buzzed. Pickups were lowered to 3/8 below the string and still it buzzed. Also this is not my first bass build. This is number 34. I am going to try a different set of strings tomorrow.
 
#6
F Brock said:
Hi there,

Just finished building a 5 string bass and I am scratching my head with a strange fret buzz issue. I leveled the frets , strung the bass up and it played very well with a nice low action and no fret buzz. After putting the pickups in it started buzzing like crazy. Took the neck pickup out( pickups are in standard J bass position) and the fret buzz went away. Put a set of pickups in from a different manufacturer and still same problem. Bass has nickel would Ken Smith strings. I have set the pick ups very low ( to low ) and still the problem. Take the neck pickup out and the fret buzz disapears? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
are they mounted with springs underneath?
i use foam for this very reason too many times I found strange buzzing and "odd" wolf tones when springs were used to hold the pickups up.
are you hearing this buzzing through the amp, or acoustically?
is the buzzing coming from above the nut/ behind the bridge (pluck the string with one hand while pressing down behind the nut.
Nut slots could be too loose, improperly cut, witness points not set. Tuners can rattle, other hardware can rattle...
 
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#7
So after trying out multiple pickups ( Soap bar P2 size ) from different manufacturers the simple fact is that certain pickups and designs, especially the neck pickup, project way more magnetic pull on the strings than others. The only pickups ( no I did not test every pickup in existence but I did test 6 different manufacturers and models) that did not cause the excessive string buzz on the frets were Bartolini, Seymour Duncan and certain EMG models. Alnico 2, single coil and certain weaker ceramic magnets seemed to improve the problem. All pickups were padded with foam underneath. This was also tested out on multiple basses not just one. You can feel a difference in the magnet strength just by gently tapping the pickup with a screwdriver. Want your bass to have less fret buzz. Try lowering the neck pickup or switch it out to a pickup with a weaker magnetic pull. Talked to multiple manufacturers about it. Some played dumb and acted like they had never heard of this before, others said yeah sure that is a factor in selecting pickups and setting the height of the pickup. Once again the pickup was affecting string/fret buzz not electrical buzz. Nut on the bass was fine and so was the bridge. Had a couple of other luthier friends try removing the neck pickup from their basses and they all reported the same thing. Remove certain models of neck pickup and the bass immediately stopped/reduced fret rattle/buzz.
 
#8
So after 34 basses, you just noticed this for the first time? I too have built many and set up hundreds and have not come across this as an issue of the magnitude you describe. Not saying its not the case but it also seems to me that there are likely other factors that have come into play here...
 
#9
Beej said:
So after 34 basses, you just noticed this for the first time? I too have built many and set up hundreds and have not come across this as an issue of the magnitude you describe. Not saying its not the case but it also seems to me that there are likely other factors that have come into play here...
Click to expand...
How many times have you set up a bass with the neck pickup totally removed? Not many times I imagine. And no this is not the first time I have just noticed this but it was the first time that I had finished a bass and left the pickup completely out. And what other factors have I left out? Like I said certain pickups do this more than others ( mostly double coils and Alnico 5 ).
 
#10
So Beej what other factors are causing the problem then? Also can people please read the post carefully. We are talking about fret buzz not electrical buzz or nut buzz or bridge buzz.
 
#11
F Brock said:
How many times have you set up a bass with the neck pickup totally removed? Not many times I imagine. And no this is not the first time I have just noticed this but it was the first time that I had finished a bass and left the pickup completely out. And what other factors have I left out? Like I said certain pickups do this more than others ( mostly double coils and Alnico 5 ).
Click to expand...
Actually, I'd say that for certain, I've done it at least 23 times, which is how many instruments I've hand built from scratch. I always set up my instruments completely while they are "in the white" to check that everything is good before I apply the finish and complete the instrument. Many other builders I know also do this as a final QC check. I'm not sure how many instruments that I've not built, but set up have been missing the neck pickup, but since many of them were owned by punk players, there were more than a few. :D

I also know from my own direct experience, that it can be harder than one would imagine to pinpoint exactly where the buzz is coming from. This is also probably why some of the others in this thread speculated about other sources of buzz being mistaken for fret buzz. Its not that we're incapable of "carefully" reading your posts, its just that we know there can be other sources and we, as fallible creatures, can easily believe one thing while reality is another. I tried for hours to alleviate a fret buzzing issue on a friend's acoustic, and then felt like an idiot when we found a loose brace. :) If you've been able to very carefully control for other influences, which it does sound like you are asserting in your latest posts, then I'm not challenging you of course, but it can be tricky to be 100% sure, so hence the speculation from myself and others.

You do sound strongly convinced that it is definitely the strength of the pickup magnets, which of course we all know can vary widely - it just struck me as a little odd that this would have introduced so much variability in this case, since varying magnetic field strength is such a ubiquitous situation that is little oft reported to have such a great impact on setups...
 
#12
Yeah, I'm baffled by this too. Pickup magnets causing fret buzz doesn't make sense to me, from my own experience and knowledge. I've been designing and building basses and pickups for many years. And lately, the pickups I've been making are using very powerful magnets. Pickups with powerful magnets can cause extra "bloom" on the notes, sort of a trail of extra midrange as the highs and lows fade down. But causing fret buzz? How? The conventional wisdom (which I don't fully agree with) is that powerful magnets slow the strings down, restricting their movement and cutting the sustain. You would think that would reduce mechanical fret buzz, right?
 
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#15
Well, okay, I guess I can accept that, although the amount of deflection has got be very small. The string has about 30 lbs of tension in it, and the magnet has a few ounces of pull. How far is it going to pull the string off to the side? It wouldn't be hard to measure, but it's got to be less than 0.010".

So, accepting that the presence of the pickup's magnet is pulling the string down slightly, and you have your action set low enough that you are getting some buzz. Then you remove the pickup, which releases that downward pull, and the string goes slightly higher, stopping the buzz. By removing the pickup, you've effectively slightly raised the action.

The question becomes: Why don't you just put the pickup of your choice back in, and with it in place, slightly raise the action at the bridge saddles, until the buzz just stops? That would be putting the string at the same height above the frets, as you had previously gotten by removing the pickup, right? Why remove the pickup, when you could get the same net effect by turning the bridge saddle screws a little bit?
 
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#16
You got me curious, so I did a quick test. I grabbed one of my bench mules, which I use for testing pickups. It's 35" scale, with Chromes on it, up to standard pitch. I held a new 3/8" dia x 1" long A5 rod magnet near a string, right after the heel of the neck, moving it carefully closer to the string, while watching the movement of the string in relation to a fixed line. A 3/8" x 1" A5 is a big honkin' magnet, roughly 4 times the field strength power of a 1/4" magnet (like a Quarter Pounder) and roughly 8 times the power of factory Fender-style pickup magnet.

What I saw was this: With the magnet 1/8" (0.125") or more away from the string, I couldn't see any movement at all of the string. It was 0.001" or less. It didn't matter which gauge, which string. As I moved the magnet under 0.100" away, I could begin to see a little bit of movement, a few thousandths. When I got the gap down to about 0.050", the string would snap over and stick to the magnet.

So:
Yes, Chromes are not the most magnetic strings; steel rounds would be somewhat more magnetic.

But this was a really powerful magnet!

A gap of 0.100" between the magnet and the string at the 24th fret is not really even playable. Any plucking at all, and the string would stick to the magnet.

My conclusion from this is that any normal pickup would have to be unreasonably close to the strings to cause a few thousandth's of an inch of deflection from the magnet's pull.

A related observation about magnets vs strings: The conventional wisdom is that installing pickups with big magnets (like Quarter Pounders) will kill the sustain, because the powerful magnets will slow the strings down quicker. That's what everyone says. But, I can pluck the string on my test mule and listen to its decay, unplugged and unamplified. Pluck it again, and listen to the decay while holding the big magnet next to the string at the 24th fret, moving it as close as possible to the string without sticking to it. I tried, but I can't make the decay faster. And that's with the big honkin' 3/8" magnet held really close. So, how is a measly little Quarter Pounder slowing the string down, when it's normally further away than that?

I can answer that: The bigger magnets put a larger pulse on the beginning of the note- an exaggerated attack curve shape- before settling into the extended ring of the note. The overall volume (level) is louder, so you turn the level down to compensate. And your perception is that the sustain has dropped off. It's actually still there; you've adjusted in response to the big opening pulse.
 
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#20
So what happened when you tested this pup on the other basses? Did you have the same buzz? If not then its not the magnetic pull causing the buzz in your new build.
If yes then the problem is not with you build, just use another pup.
 
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