Double Bass Playing in 4C (just above freezing) and high humidity

B

bickele

Dec 29, 2003
163
37
4,931
Bergen, Norway
#1
Hi! I'll be playing in the air chamber of an underwater cave in the north of Norway at the end of march.
Temperature will be 4C and I expect extremely high humidity.
It will be mostly electric bass and some electric upright, with a small percentage of bowing. Will the hair even grip in that temperature?

Any tips on the softest rosin I should use to play in almost freezing temp?

And yes, the instruments will be carried under water in dry bags...

Ciao

dB
 
  • Like
Reactions: bassmanbrent and Jason Hollar
#2
I played in 0°C on show, Christmas carrols, with double bass. Rosin Kolstein soft, it was stiffer but still usable, I had to be more careful. Bass was okay, not even tuning problems. The biggest issue was cold on fingers, depressing the strings soon started to be really painful. I've seen bassists playing with wool gloves with and without open fingertips. Check it out; I will next freezing gig.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carl Hillman, Wasnex and Anne Millington
#3
4C and 0C should be ok.

Be careful if colder though. I played an outdoor event during a cold spell…
Upwards of -10 C, it really affected my tendons later.

The guitarist on that date, a full time pro, got tendinitis and had to take 3 weeks off playing.
I wore fingerless fly fishing gloves, the ones that also fold over like mittens when possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason Hollar
#4
bickele said:
Hi! I'll be playing in the air chamber of an underwater cave in the north of Norway at the end of march.
Temperature will be 4C and I expect extremely high humidity.
It will be mostly electric bass and some electric upright, with a small percentage of bowing. Will the hair even grip in that temperature?

Any tips on the softest rosin I should use to play in almost freezing temp?

And yes, the instruments will be carried under water in dry bags...

Ciao

dB
Click to expand...
Wait. You’re playing WHERE?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: bickele, Kyle Tither, the_Ryan and 5 others
#5
I've played a few gigs in just above freezing weather, though low humidity. Really unpleasant after a while because it hurt to depress the strings because they were so cold, and my hands were icy. Additionally the bow hair became less and less grippy. So gloves and really soft rosin will help. Also any kind of handwarmers you have will be a tremendous boon.

The only lasting effect I had was exhaustion when I finally got home. I went to sleep sitting up on the sofa, and did not wake up for hours.
 
Last edited:
#6
By the way, you Nordic types are indomitable. One of my most lasting memories is listening to an opera orchestra play in Copenhagen's Tivoli Gardens at night in the middle of winter. Just freezing! I cannot fathom how they were able to sound so wonderful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason Hollar
#7
bickele said:
Hi! I'll be playing in the air chamber of an underwater cave in the north of Norway at the end of march.
Temperature will be 4C and I expect extremely high humidity.
It will be mostly electric bass and some electric upright, with a small percentage of bowing. Will the hair even grip in that temperature?

Any tips on the softest rosin I should use to play in almost freezing temp?

And yes, the instruments will be carried under water in dry bags...

Ciao

dB
Click to expand...

Wow. How are you powering your amps and sound system???
 
#9
bickele said:
Hi! I'll be playing in the air chamber of an underwater cave in the north of Norway at the end of march.
Temperature will be 4C and I expect extremely high humidity.
It will be mostly electric bass and some electric upright, with a small percentage of bowing. Will the hair even grip in that temperature?

Any tips on the softest rosin I should use to play in almost freezing temp?

And yes, the instruments will be carried under water in dry bags...

Ciao

dB
Click to expand...
Pluragrotta?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bickele
#14
Thanks for the tip on Kolstein soft. That's what I normally use in Norway anyway :)

Yes, the concert is in Plura cave!
A company has been hired to run fiber the whole way under water and into the air chamber, the concert will be streamed live.
50 people live audience in the air chamber max plus crew, to ensure the appropriate levels of O2 and CO2 (which will be monitored real time of course, and everyone has diving gear anyway...).
The air chamber is huge, so that will not be a problem. Around 400m long and as far as I remember easily 10-15m tall.
Power will be provided by batteries. I think they have planned about 10 000KWh worth of batteries.
Instruments and PA will be carried in custom made dry suits with air inflator and vent valve, so there will be no physical strain on the boxes, but of course the internal pressure will reach up to 4 atmospheres (30m depth max).

I've only recently joined the project, so I don't have all logistics clear yet. I can report back later :)
What I do know is that the crew in Plura is SO professional and serious about safety that an in depth risk assessment has been done and all aspects covered. Same crew that worked on the wedding in there a few years back :) See Wikipedia for details.

When it comes to temperature, I am planning on a full suit with built in electric heating and definitely gloves. Possibly even heated gloves to use every time I have a small break :)

See a teaser here:
Facebook

Exciting times!

dB
 
  • Like
Reactions: RattleSnack, james condino, marcox and 8 others
#15
Dream scenario would have been a 100% carbon fiber acoustic upright bass, filled with water for transportation and emptied once the air chamber is reached. Would have looked sick on video too!
Maybe Luis & Clark would be interested in endorsing the project! They could get the bass back when done and use it as the coolest advertisement ever on how durable their instruments are :)

dB
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don Hergert
#17
Btw, you might consider a CF bow and synthetic bow hair... High humidity causes natural hair fibers to lengthen, which while it may still hold rosin, it may not come up to proper playing tension due to the way the hair would normally be setup in the tip and in the frog of the bow. Also, bow wood and the wood glues normally used may do strange things in such humid and cold situations. This can probably be simulated by taking the bow into the cold shower with you, although I wouldn't suggest doing this with a fine wooden bow.

I would imagine that with the humidity so high and temps just above freezing, water will drip off the roof of the cave, like fog condensing and dripping off of a windshield. Maybe my perception is wrong, but the pics I have seen of the inside of the cave look like it is in a constant state of light rain. This might be worse with 50+ people inside breathing. If that is the case, it might be nice to have some sort of sub-roof over the performing musicians and musical instruments, else everything might get soaked. This also goes for batteries and electronic equipment. I'm sure you can ask people who have been there about this possible "indoor rain" situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bickele and Lee Moses
#18
Thanks dhergert,

Definitely some light indoor rain. I have been there before myself. Not severe enough to be a big concern with electric instruments I think. But would definitely not bring an acoustic bass in there!
I was considering asking the crew to design some kind of semi-sealed bags for the electronics. We could potentially use compressed air from a diving tank with a pressure regulator to provide some dry air gently flowing into the bags.
I'll raise the issue on the next meeting.
I also asked them to measure the humidity, so I have something to plan around.
All batteries are from Seacraft, made specifically for diving gear, so no problem there.
Carbon fiber bow with synthetic hair sounds good! I'll decide whether to invest as soon as I know the material we'll play. I expect minimal and relatively simple bow action. Especially considering I'll bring an electric upright which sounds deadly bowed :)

The venue is not Steinugleflåget. It's the air chamber which is only accessible from the under water cave tunnels.
I realize this is becoming a bit off-topic on this forum. Moderators, please feel free to move if you prefer.

The other thought I just had is that all speakers must be ported design. If sealed they will implode under transport. 4 ATA (30m) pressure is surprisingly crushing. So air needs to be free to flow in and out of everything. Anything sealed will get destroyed.

dB
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcox, Don Hergert, Keith Rawlings and 2 others
#19
What an amazing project!!!

As you may be aware, my double bass is an Alcoa aluminum double bass, and that's part of why I'm so interested in the technical details about this project...

If it were not so big, an Alcoa probably would work for a project like this, but because of its size I don't know if it would even be possible to fit it through the cave corridors to get to the air chamber.

The only exposed wood on a standard Alcoa is the fingerboard, the bridge, the tailpiece and the endpin and plug assembly; inside there's a wooden sound post and an internal wooden neck brace. My Alcoa has even less wood. So in that respect an Alcoa probably has less wood to worry about than an EUB. IF it were practical for this project, the other big problem would be finding an Alcoa in or near Norway; they are pretty rare anywhere nowadays. But they were designed for this kind of atmosphere exposure.

There is a builder in Australia who custom builds aluminum double basses, but they are long term builds and probably would not be available before this dive.

Of course, any wood tends to float. During the dive, weights will probably need to be applied to the dry bags and cases to overcome that buoyancy.

Regarding a bow, it sounds like maybe just getting an inexpensive wood bow might be an easy answer, if it will function properly in the humidity and temps that you are expecting. Testing one in advance would probably be a good thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back