Double Bass Playing seated under duress (jazz DB content)

[HateyMcAmp]

So, I never play seated. I kind of love the the DB is the “standing desk” of string instruments and when I was cutting my teeth hustling for gigs in NYC I’d never ever consider bringing another thing to carry on the train. But life comes at you fast; I very unexpectedly broke my foot in a freak slip and fall accident. Pretty good too, I had surgery last week to get some hardware installed.

I’m a full time professional double bassist so while standing and walking unaided is out of the question for the next 2ish months, playing bass is happening! A couple days after my accident I grabbed a stool from one of the places I play (with staff permission!) and it seems be working pretty well. I’ve always done 4 gigs with it. Here’s a picture -

While this stool was designed for eating tacos, the bass is about the same level in comparison to my ear as playing standing. I’m loving stable balance point for thumb position, and have been going up there a bunch more as a result. Currently it feels, in comparison to playing standing, a little easier to use arm weight with my left hand but a little harder with the right hand. Nothing that is super majorly effecting my performance, but it’s early days.

Does anyone have any advice? I don’t really know any seated pizz players out here in Colorado or I’d think private lesson first. Any good videos? Am I going to get by with my improvised stool or do I need something purpose built? I’m going on 3 week, 6 state tour in a few weeks before I’m able to stand again (its thankfully not my driving foot) and would like to prepare as well as I can.

 

[MrLenny1]

Ouch.
The stool needs a pillow. lol

 

[Chris Symer]

When I sit I prefer a much lower stool than that, I find it a lot more comfortable. I generally sit for any arco intensive gig and play perhaps half my jazz gigs sitting- usually on a low stool but also will borrow whatever is available if I feel like sitting. There is YouTube footage af Red Mitchell sitting low, Stanley Clarke sitting higher, and Miroslav Vitous sitting in regular chairs playing his travel bass. I have seen Patitucci sit when playing live but can’t remember if I have seen anything on YouTube to check out..... sorry about your foot!

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Chris Fitzgerald posted a video here on TB somewhere that featured a number of different players and their approach to playing seated. I don’t remember which forum it was posted in.

 

[krfoss]

this stool was designed for eating tacos

If its good enough for tacos, its good enough for DB.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Sorry to hear about your foot! Some years ago when I was coming off ACL/MCL surgery I found myself on a gig in the exact opposite predicament: I always play sitting, but since my left leg couldn't bend I had to play standing basically on one foot. It was very uncomfortable and I'm glad I only had to do it once.

Since it sounds like it's also your left foot, I would get a lower stool so you can set both feet on the ground instead of trying to put a broken foot up on a rung - maybe you can do that with this stool, but if not that would be a good thing. I'll post the video @Jim Dombrowski mentioned, but truth be told it's a lot more useful for standing players than for seated players. But if you want to check it our, it can be found here. Good luck!

 

[damonsmith]

For all kinds of reasons I think we all need a sitting and standing concept - though each of us will prefer one over the other.

 

[Adam Booker]

For all kinds of reasons I think we all need a sitting and standing concept - though each of us will prefer one over the other.

This this this!
And I’ll add,
As a teacher, having familiarity with more than one one standing (low endpin, high endpin, Rabbath style) and sitting (high stool, low stool, middle with yoga blocks and yes that’s a thing) concept is a good thing as well.

 

[Tom Lane]

This this this!
And I’ll add,
As a teacher, having familiarity with more than one one standing (low endpin, high endpin, Rabbath style) and sitting (high stool, low stool, middle with yoga blocks and yes that’s a thing) concept is a good thing as well.

So, I get the need for seated and standing... and I'm with you there. I can even, grudgingly see the need for low stool versus high stool sitting, but Rabbath style? Yoga blocks? Low endpin? High endpin? I can see that if you're saying that bassists should try many positions before "settling" on their preferred position... but, for a pro, being able to play seated and standing are requirements, but playing with yoga blocks? Am I missing something?

 

[mtto]

I play sitting with a yoga block under my left foot. It raises my knee a little, which angles the bass a little inwards. Also, it's more comfortable. Similar to a classical guitar foot rest. If you decide to try this, do yourself a favor and buy a black yoga block - looks better on stage than purple. I sometimes play in section with TBer @LouisF and stole the yoga block idea from him.

My stool is from Target. I use a ButtCradle cushion. ButtCradle :: Premium Double Bass Stool Cushions

I also use an endpin anchor stop strap. I like that it puts the bass in the same spot every time I sit down.

I played standing for the first 15-20 years of my playing life. Still play standing sometimes. It took me months of adjusting the endpin to find the optimum height/angle for the bass while seated.

 

[Don Kasper]

but playing with yoga blocks?

Should the block be Carved, Ply, or Hybrid?
Does the Wiedoeft Rosin Company sell a really expensive one?
Lets us know, Tom!

 

[Don Hergert]

Yea, sorry to hear about your foot, I hope it heals fast and well for you. Glad the fall didn't also involve your DB!

I have lower back and leg stability issues due to a bout with GBS/CIDP so for heavier bluegrass instruments (banjo, Dobro) I have to sit. I've been enjoying the DB because it stands somewhat on its own without being heavy on my body, so I get to stand with it, plus I'm (re)developing some stomach and trunk muscles carrying it around. But, I still sit when playing in the house quite a bit... I'm short and my old Alcoa has a very short and a sort of long dowel endpin, so I always use the short endpin.

Since I usually have to sit on stage or when jamming while playing the heavy banjo or Dobro, often I shop for high sitting folding chairs. Ikea has some very nice Franklin Chairs and some chair pads that I like especially for on stage and at home, but they're much too heavy to carry from jam to jam. Walmart has these folding stools that I started using for a while because they are light and easy to carry, but they're not very stable either on stage or on dirt for jamming. For the bass I really like these relatively pricey folding adjustable height workers chairs and have bought 2 of them but have subsequently given them both away to other bass players because they are too heavy for me to carry around and they're unstable on dirt for jamming. Finally, for quick, light, stable sitting mostly for jamming with the banjo or Dobro, I use one of these Coleman Woodsman chairs. When jamming with the bass or mandolin, I'll either stand or use the Walmart stool previously mentioned.

For the first few weeks while getting used to sitting and playing the bass at home, my left shoulder hurt because I was basically extending my left arm and hand above my neck. After taking frequent breaks when I felt my shoulder get hot, that seems to have gone away now.

A few months ago at a hotel-based bluegrass festival we had a friend playing my bass for us while we jammed in our suite. He sat somewhat normally on a sofa the whole time, stretched out, with the bass over him while he semi-cradled it with his legs. He was very comfortable and we jammed with him and lots of other people for hours. We really don't have an open-access sofa at home so I haven't quite figured out how he did that, but it seemed like a really nice option.

Best of luck as you heal and I hope you're fully mobile again soon!

 

[Bander]

Sorry about the injury. I use a swivel padded stool, typically found under $30, requires a few minutes of assembly. Its really light weight, so toting it and my upright can happen in a single trip. Looks a lot like this, with cloth seating:

I also have a folding directors style chair in leather and dark Mahogany like this thats a little dressier, still usable for upright:

I never sit for an entire gig. I use the seat for rest time, and to break from standing. I find sitting for a tune or two every now and then really reduces fatigue, especially for longer gigs.

 

[DrayMiles]

For all kinds of reasons I think we all need a sitting and standing concept - though each of us will prefer one over the other.

I agree with this. You need to do both, although one will be more preferable obviously.

 

[DrayMiles]

It took me months of adjusting the endpin to find the optimum height/angle for the bass while seated.

I vaguely remember someone notable saying that they keep the endpin the same height, whether standing or sitting. I decided to try that and find that (with an adjustable seat) it seems to work. Then, if I have a gig, I don't think about the angle of the bass as much. Once I'm comfortable in a chair, it's full speed ahead... Standing or sitting.

 

[shwashwa]

https://www.amazon.com/Stage-DT8500-Guitar-Keyboard-Throne/dp/B0018TIAA4

 

[damonsmith]

The less "I need _____" to play or practice the better. Blocks are never good whether real or imagined. It is great to be comfortable, but, things like specific stools or yoga blocks should be treated as luxuries and we need to have a way to get on with the work when they break or are not available. The bass presents plenty of obstacles without adding more.

 

[gerry grable]

I've been playing upright since April 11, 1961. The reason I remember was that I turned 21 on the gig. I had my first legal beer after midnight April 12th. I always played standing. I don't think anyone sat in those days? In recent years I've trying sitting but have never got through a gig without putting the stool aside. The bass just feels too rigid to me.
However, my main reason for writing was to ask if there is any info on the long-term effects of sitting on the body?
When I stand my body is balanced and flexible, but I would think that sitting for years with legs crooked in various positions and favoring one buttock would cause problems.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@gerry grable - in my posture video I address the last part of your question here; For me, it's important to have the legs at the same height and the hips symmetrical and relaxed when sitting to avoid back issues. On the rare occasions when I use a bow, I need to move my right leg out of the way to reach the E string, but since I do 99% of my playing without it, the symmetrical seated position demonstrated in the video has been very healthy and sustainable.

All of the classical kids at the university where I teach play seated, and many use yoga blocks to get their legs/hips into a less-uneven alignment than setting one out not he floor and another on a stool rung. It's better than what they did before, but still could cause problems. Sid King, the classical teacher, helps each student find their ideal comfortable position and even keeps a saw in his office so he can adjust the legs of their playing stools to the right height once they find it. I keep both 24" and 29" stools in my office, but always play on a 24" stool when possible. A number of the classical students taking secondary lessons have ended up trying my stool with their endpins all the way in and found that they like the lower center of gravity. Sid has duly sawed their stool legs to that length without giving me too much of a side eye.

I would encourage anyone who plays seated to try sitting on a stool of whatever height lets them put the endpin all the way in, even if it's only an experiment. After having played with both stool heights for years, I have to say it feels really nonsensical to sit up higher and pull the endpin out at this point. Better to be more close to the ground and stable, at least for me. As always, EEMMV, and EEMWCB.

 

[damonsmith]

I don't put the pin all the way, I think it is useful to use a similar angle to standing, but I put it about half as high as standing. My "second phase" of practice is done sitting now. After playing my warm ups, etudes and whatever practice materials I am studying at the moment standing, I lower the peg and walk with the metronome and do repetitive bow exercises and other more physical work.