Q about combining two different 4x10 cabs

Mar 16, 2022
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Hey!

My bandmate said something about possible different phases of 2 different 4x10 bass cabs powered by 1 amp and that it can be mitigated by a special pedal.

Can someone please provide your input on this topic?

I have an Ashdown MAG Deep 410 and awaiting for the delivery of gen1 Hartke Hydrive 410 (should be here within a week). Gonna power them with Tech 21 VT500. And to move more air I want to run them both together during rehersals (super loud band with acrylic drums, huge cymbals and a monster drummer who likes to beat the drums with force).
 
Yes, there can be phase issues when using two different cabinets. No, there’s no pedal that can fix it.
Doing a 9v battery polarity test is the easiest method to be sure that all of your speakers are moving in the same direction at the same time.
There is still a chance that two 410s from different vendors won’t sound good together. The best advice is to get a second matching cabinet or a cabinet that is designed to work with the 410 properly.
 
What @abarson said. Plus make sure your amp can handle running both cabinets. Check the ohms for each cabinet. Note when adding two cabinets to a single amp, the total load to the amp is calculated by 1/x + 1/y = 1/z where x and y are the ohm ratings per each cab and z is the total, so two cabs with an 8 ohm rating have a total rating of 4 ohms. Do the calculation and make sure your amp can handle it.

Also, each cab will likely have a different SPL/efficiency, so even if both cabs are 8 ohms, you might have one cab louder than the other. Watch your power handling too. Mismatched cabs at “full volume” are an easy way to blow speakers before you realize it. (also easy way to destroy your ears - though the drummer’s cymbals can do that to you and you’ll be stuck with ringing ears for the rest of your life. Definitely wear ear plug!)

There’s probably some FAQ about running two cabs. Do check the phase with a 9V battery, but also make sure you’re not trying to run your amp below its minimum ohm rating.
 
First basics... Are both cabs 8 ohms? If either is a 4 ohm cab, you can't run it safely. Next, the 9v test mentioned by abarson above. Third, ears, used 'em. You could rewire a cable backwards if they are out of phase but then you'd have to keep up with it. If out of phase, I'd just reverse the wires inside one of the cabs at the cable connection.
 
Making sure both speakers are wired to the same polarity is about all you can do without using some series tools to measure and process the signals.

The 9V battery test check polarity, although sometimes we incorrectly call it phase.

The problem relates to variances in phase and group delay.

All speakers have some degree of variable phase shift. As the frequency goes down the phase lags behind. AFAIK, this is generally not a huge problem.

In ported cabs the phase tends to vary more quickly around the port tuning frequency. So if the cabs are tuned different, the phase variance between cabs will be different.

Often we discuss this problem as relating to mixing different driver sizes. But a good engineer can design 15', 12's, 10's etc so they play well together. If a pair of 410s are not designed to play well together it's crap shoot.

If both cabs have about the same sensitivity rating and power handling, it's likely that adding the second cab will increase the SPL. But it may also significantly degrade the sound. I have used severely mismatch cabs before, because I needed more volume. No one complained, but I did not think the sound was great.

Some argue that group delay variance is more of a factor than phase variance. I don't fully understand what group delay is, so I won't try to describe it other than to say it's a form of phase distortion, but not the same thing as phase variance. I do know that cabs that are tuned different will tend have different group delay characteristics, and if there is too much group delay variance between the cabs it can degrade the sound.

Most Eminence Pro woofers have cab tuning documents with several cab designs that show group delay.
Here is a link for the 2512 cab design doc: 290-593--eminence-deltalite-2512-cabinet-design.pdf (parts-express.com)

Here are some of the group delay graphs from the documents.
upload_2023-3-28_12-45-46.png


As you can see, some of the group delay curves are very similar. AFAIK, these tunings would probably be reasonably compatible. However, some of these group delay curves are probably too dissimilar to really work well together. Keep in mind all of these charts are for designs using the same 2512 driver.


My advice, is check the sensitivity, impedance, and power handling. Figure how the power will be shared between cabs and also between drivers. The idea is each cab must be able to safely handle all of the power you will throw at it.

Calculate the SPL each cab can produce with usable power, and if the SPL numbers are reasonably close, give it a try.

If the calculated SPL varies too much between the two cabs, adding the second cab may actually reduce the max volume your rig can produce, in addition to degrading the sound. So there is really no point in using both cabs.
 
When I combined an Eden 410xlt and Eden 212xlt on my two channel power amp, I had many interesting things happen.

1. One particularly awesome tone was created.
2. Tone controls responded differently through each cabinet and I had to crank tone knobs to get any variation of tone
3. The 212xlt distorted faster than the 410xlt.
4. Every other variation of tone I tried to get was muddy!
5. The 410xlt was definitely louder than the 212xlt

Go ahead and try your idea and see what your ears tell you. I won't stop you! It might work well or it might be a waste of money. Likely a waste of money...