Double Bass Question on a certain sound

bigmags14

bigmags14

Jul 22, 2014
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#1
Hey guys,

I have a question on getting a certain sound that some players have. I'm not sure if its been asked before and I dont really know how to describe it. Maybe almost like a fretless electric bass? If you listen to Patitucci play in this video, this is the sound im wondering about. Dave Holland has a similar sound. Is it just the bass he plays, or a pedal or something? Thanks!

 
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#2
At about 7:30 into this clip you can clearly see there's no mic on the bass which is what I suspected. There's a body resonance almost reverb thing that can happen with steel strings and just the signal from the pickup. Dave Holland has used just the pickup with no mic quite a bit as has another guy who gets this kind of sound Eddie Gomez. If it's not happening for you you could try adding a very slight touch of reverb but be cautious it's easy, almost inevitable, to overdo. What pickup and preamp are you using?
 
#4
Using a full circle into a markbass combo amp. I have a plywood bass with spirocores. Never got a sound like that. I just bought a carved bass with a full circle but haven't hooked the pickup up yet so I'm not sure what it sounds like. That has hybrid strings I believe from d'addario and it has a much better sound than the plywood bass. Are steel strings different? Don't use a preamp at the moment, except for the f deck high pass filter occasionally.
 
#5
bigmags14 said:
Using a full circle into a markbass combo amp. I have a plywood bass with spirocores. Never got a sound like that. I just bought a carved bass with a full circle but haven't hooked the pickup up yet so I'm not sure what it sounds like. That has hybrid strings I believe from d'addario and it has a much better sound than the plywood bass. Are steel strings different? Don't use a preamp at the moment, except for the f deck high pass filter occasionally.
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Your new carved bass should definitely sound quite different (in a good way) from your plywood. Check the owners manual of your Markbass combo. Some older Markbass amplifiers will benefit from a Piezo Buffer Preamp. Fishman has always set their Pro Platinum,Platinum Pro and Pro Pre Amps at 10 meg ohms. This can make a difference in how your pickup sounds. D'Addario Hybrids aren't as bright as Spirocores, which to me is a good thing because I do use the bow. The FDeck has is set for 10 meg ohms. I'd try using it all the time to see if you llke the sound? Ultimately, your ears have to tell you if you are comfortable with the sound. The video you've posted shows just how wonderful John Pattituci is regardless of what he's playing througn (it's a Hartke for god sake!) or what kind of bass/pickup combination he's using. :D

Ric
 
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#6
Let's not forget to consider the inherent, acoustic, un-amplified, sound of the bass in the video - JP's Pollmann(?) bass was/is the starting point of the sound. This bass, and his "hands", play a large part in the eventual sound.
IMO.
 
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#7
hmm Im not sure ive seen that option on mine. All I see is volume, frequency cut off and phase reverse. Im assuming 10 Mohm is the impedance, which is a quite large resistance. What does that benefit?
 
#9
Don Kasper said:
Let's not forget to consider the inherent, acoustic, un-amplified, sound of the bass in the video - JP's Pollmann(?) bass was/is the starting point of the sound. This bass, and his "hands", play a large part in the eventual sound.
IMO.
Click to expand...

Indeed they do, I added that to my post above after I thought about it some more. I'd say in this particular video, John has used his artistry to make a very lackluster system create music. So, at least to me, he's overcome
the sonic obsticales, with great ideas.
 
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#10
Don Kasper said:
Let's not forget to consider the inherent, acoustic, un-amplified, sound of the bass in the video - JP's Pollmann(?) bass was/is the starting point of the sound. This bass, and his "hands", play a large part in the eventual sound.
IMO.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. There's a supreme confidence of time and touch that players like Pattitucci and Holland and Gomez project in their playing. Without a doubt this digs deep into drawing the acoustic sound from the instrument which translates directly into the amplified sound.
 
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#11
I've got to say that to me, this is about as good as a direct piezo pickup sound can get on a big festival stage. Yes, it's largely because JP is a total jaw dropping, monster bass player, but I think there's a good sound man involved in this equation too. There are plenty of examples on youtube of the greats with pretty unpleasant piezo tones. A bad sound man can ruin the greatest tone around if they're not aware of how to deal with the URB and piezo pickups. Just my 2 cents...
 
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#12
From the Archeology Dept. -
1992 might as well have been near the end of the Paleolithic Period, (i.e., the development of primitive tools), in bass amplification, compared to today's many options!
As I recall, most people initially used Hartke cabs because they were so "COOL" looking, esp. on a big, outdoor stage. ("...Oh, look, Blanche! Shiny Speakers From The Future!")
We've come a long way, Baby.
ALSO - JP may well/will go down in History as one of the most important post-Ron Carter bassists. He raised the bar, just a wee bit, I believe...I.M.O.
Thanks.
 
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#13
Direct signal, probably an Underwood pu..that's what he always used when I was going to see him during this era. Great setup, great instrument, great hands and huge ears.
 
#15
bassmanbrent said:
I've got to say that to me, this is about as good as a direct piezo pickup sound can get on a big festival stage. Yes, it's largely because JP is a total jaw dropping, monster bass player, but I think there's a good sound man involved in this equation too. There are plenty of examples on youtube of the greats with pretty unpleasant piezo tones. A bad sound man can ruin the greatest tone around if they're not aware of how to deal with the URB and piezo pickups. Just my 2 cents...
Click to expand...

I've heard better, but I've also heard a lot worse. IMHO the "big shiny speakers" are so much of a problem that they bury whatever nuances the Underwood might be capable of producing. The backlash to this came, when everyone decided that using
Electrovoice RE 20's (which sounded decent provided things didn't get excessively loud) was the solution. The Underwood, combined with a Walter Woods (which John owned incidentally) could get a very nice sound. Backlines at festivals are always problematic, and only
occasionally great. Just my take. I get to deal with this in a couple of weeks, knowing that it likely be a SWR or a SVT. So, I'm likely to take the Lakland 55-94. I know it's a cop out.

Ric
 
#16
Ric Vice said:
I've heard better, but I've also heard a lot worse. IMHO the "big shiny speakers" are so much of a problem that they bury whatever nuances the Underwood might be capable of producing. The backlash to this came, when everyone decided that using
Electrovoice RE 20's (which sounded decent provided things didn't get excessively loud) was the solution. The Underwood, combined with a Walter Woods (which John owned incidentally) could get a very nice sound. Backlines at festivals are always problematic, and only
occasionally great. Just my take. I get to deal with this in a couple of weeks, knowing that it likely be a SWR or a SVT. So, I'm likely to take the Lakland 55-94. I know it's a cop out.

Ric
Click to expand...

Just had another listen to this, and yeah, the bass gets pretty honky at places in JP's solo. I hear what you are saying about the big shiny speakers, but they might not be in this particular sound equation. Could just be the pickup into a DI that we're hearing... I didn't look too closely, but I didn't see a mic on the cabinet behind him. On a separate but related note, when I've seen Dave Holland, both live and on youtube, he's often using a GK combo and a Hartke 4x10 cab. Not my thing, but I will never argue with Dave Holland about anything related to playing the bass :-)
 
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#17
I was really hoping there was an easier answer to get this sound haha. To me it really doesn't reproduce the "natural" sound of an upright bass, but I really dig the sound. I've heard great things about the underwood, maybe ill pick one up in the future to have with my full circle. Btw are Hartke's that bad? Never really heard much about them... But thank you all for the responses
 
#18
bigmags14 said:
I was really hoping there was an easier answer to get this sound haha. To me it really doesn't reproduce the "natural" sound of an upright bass, but I really dig the sound. I've heard great things about the underwood, maybe ill pick one up in the future to have with my full circle. Btw are Hartke's that bad? Never really heard much about them... But thank you all for the responses
Click to expand...

Harke's emphasize the upper midrange, that's good for EB but not so good for DB. The Underwood is a very reliable 1st generation bridge pickup. Your Full Circle is a 2nd Generation pickup that's based on the Yamahiko. IMHO they sound better.

Ric
 
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#20
Hard to know, could be the BP 100..JP used to have a rack system that included a 4 band TC Electronic Parametric EQ. That unit alone can make just about any piezo pu sound decent if it's adjusted intelligently.
 
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