Double Bass Questions about slurring in Simandl new method for the double bass

[Eric Aquilina]

Hello everyone, I’m working through Simandl’s book right now, and this exercise in particular was definitely a massive leap in difficulty for me. I’ve been practicing all the previous pieces until I reached about 80-90 bpm, then I would move on, but this one the eighth note passes seem too fast even at 70. I notice there are also NO slur markings across this whole exercise, but I feel like that would make things sound a lot better and make it easier to play. I wonder if I should slur them anyways even though it doesn’t say anything about slurring yet in the book, or if I should just be practicing these much slower than I am.

 

[Lee Moses]

If playing with separate bows is giving you trouble, practicing them slurred is a great way to get it under your left hand. Then work on it with separate bows afterward.

And the reverse is true--sometimes practicing slurred passages with separate bows can be good preparation for adding the slurs later.

But practicing much slower may not be a bad idea either, or practicing with alternate rhythms (e.g., dotted 8th-16th, or 16th-dotted 8th).

In other words, all of the above.

 

[Eric Aquilina]

If playing with separate bows is giving you trouble, practicing them slurred is a great way to get it under your left hand. Then work on it with separate bows afterward.

And the reverse is true--sometimes practicing slurred passages with separate bows can be good preparation for adding the slurs later.

But practicing much slower may not be a bad idea either, or practicing with alternate rhythms (e.g., dotted 8th-16th, or 16th-dotted 8th).

In other words, all of the above.

Ok good to know! I guess I was assuming that there was supposed to be a right vs wrong way to play it. I can't tell if it sounds bad when I do separate bows on fast passages because of technique or because of rosin, because my bow always slips when I play too fast. That's something ill figure out in time though I'm sure but thank you very much for the response!

 

[jj.833]

My experiece with Simandl is that it is great for left hand, but doesn't really tell you how to solve the difficulities of the bowings. At the given excersise, you will benefit from planning your strokes (whole bow, at the frog, at the tip, in the middle). I would play it slower and would focus on playing the quarters with whole bow, eights at frog / at tip - at whatever bow end you find yourself after the long stroke - and half notes with whole bow, but slower moving than on quarters. Generally, you want to find a way that lets your bow move in a constant speed even though the note rythms vary. This is to achieve a consistent dynamics and tonal qualities. When you learn that skill, you need to learn also the opposite - play the same note lenghts in the same dynamics while varying the bow speed - because, as in this quite difficult excersise, it is not always possible to play in constant speed.

Write down a 'bow plan' like this one:

f means frog, w is whole bow, t is at the tip. (Do find the right shortcuts - I'm improvising these, having been taught the Czech ones.) The two signs above the stave are commonly understood signs n = 'start at the frog' and v = 'start at the tip'.
In bar 3, you need to gradually transfer from the tip to the frog while playing eights, which is an excersise on its own.

Until you can do it, abandon the metronome, follow your own tempo. It might take long time! You will learn it faster when you go slow but don't let any problems unsolved.

If you find the above useful, you would perhaps benefit from a different book. Gajdos/Sevcik comes in mind. And, of course, from a teacher.

 

[Eric Aquilina]

My experiece with Simandl is that it is great for left hand, but doesn't really tell you how to solve the difficulities of the bowings. At the given excersise, you will benefit from planning your strokes (whole bow, at the frog, at the tip, in the middle). I would play it slower and would focus on playing the quarters with whole bow, eights at frog / at tip - at whatever bow end you find yourself after the long stroke - and half notes with whole bow, but slower moving than on quarters. Generally, you want to find a way that lets your bow move in a constant speed even though the note rythms vary. This is to achieve a consistent dynamics and tonal qualities. When you learn that skill, you need to learn also the opposite - play the same note lenghts in the same dynamics while varying the bow speed - because, as in this quite difficult excersise, it is not always possible to play in constant speed.

Write down a 'bow plan' like this one:
View attachment 7055463
f means frog, w is whole bow, t is at the tip. (Do find the right shortcuts - I'm improvising these, having been taught the Czech ones.) The two signs above the stave are commonly understood signs n = 'start at the frog' and v = 'start at the tip'.
In bar 3, you need to gradually transfer from the tip to the frog while playing eights, which is an excersise on its own.

Until you can do it, abandon the metronome, follow your own tempo. It might take long time! You will learn it faster when you go slow but don't let any problems unsolved.

If you find the above useful, you would perhaps benefit from a different book. Gajdos/Sevcik comes in mind. And, of course, from a teacher.

Wow thanks a lot, this is incredibly helpful! I will definitely be sure to be more mindful about bowing, it was really the part I was putting least focus on, thus leading to most points of contention within my playing. This is definitely going to be a challenge for me, but a fun one! Thanks.

 

[jj.833]

Try this excersise to grasp the the concept. From FUKA BALCAR BOROVIČKA, 1991. The bowing legend is below. Constant bow speed and stable dynamics throughout the note lenght.
I believe you can find similar excersises in just about any classical bass book.

 

[AGCurry]

Most of Simandl I is dedicated to left-hand fingering. IMO that's okay, as it's tough for beginners to focus on several things simultaneously. Past page 60 or so, there are bowing exercises.
A good teacher will provide exercises to develop skills in discrete aspects, so that the student works on all of them in a practice session, but not all at once.
Outside of "warmups," It's good to have intentions in practicing ... "I am now practicing to improve [fill in the blank]."
If your intent in the exercise is to learn fingering for an A major scale, you can be relaxed about the bowing, as long as you don't bow with bad technique.

 

[the_Ryan]

My experiece with Simandl is that it is great for left hand, but doesn't really tell you how to solve the difficulities of the bowings. At the given excersise, you will benefit from planning your strokes (whole bow, at the frog, at the tip, in the middle). I would play it slower and would focus on playing the quarters with whole bow, eights at frog / at tip - at whatever bow end you find yourself after the long stroke - and half notes with whole bow, but slower moving than on quarters. Generally, you want to find a way that lets your bow move in a constant speed even though the note rythms vary. This is to achieve a consistent dynamics and tonal qualities. When you learn that skill, you need to learn also the opposite - play the same note lenghts in the same dynamics while varying the bow speed - because, as in this quite difficult excersise, it is not always possible to play in constant speed.

Write down a 'bow plan' like this one:
View attachment 7055463
f means frog, w is whole bow, t is at the tip. (Do find the right shortcuts - I'm improvising these, having been taught the Czech ones.) The two signs above the stave are commonly understood signs n = 'start at the frog' and v = 'start at the tip'.
In bar 3, you need to gradually transfer from the tip to the frog while playing eights, which is an excersise on its own.

Until you can do it, abandon the metronome, follow your own tempo. It might take long time! You will learn it faster when you go slow but don't let any problems unsolved.

If you find the above useful, you would perhaps benefit from a different book. Gajdos/Sevcik comes in mind. And, of course, from a teacher.

The down and up bow symbols just refer to the direction the bow goes, not where the bow stroke starts.

 

[jj.833]

The down and up bow symbols just refer to the direction the bow goes, not where the bow stroke starts

Yes that's right, sorry for the confusion.