Rack and Rig Simplification Question

N

NocoLaw

Jun 13, 2015
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#1
I haven't used a rack much and haven't had much to do with sound in the past. I typically take a Fender Rumble 800 combo with out to the board for electric only gigs; or if I'm playing upright and electric in the same gig, a Genzler Magellan 800 with LR Baggs Venue for the Kay upright and Aguilar TH 500 with a Sansamp VT Bass for P Bass loose on top of cabs and out to board (with other pedals pre-signal to the board). My rig, whatever it looks like, is only really ever a stage monitor. We always at least have a Fender Venue PA and JBL monster sub (model escapes me), and we usually have a sound person and bigger PA. We are adding a Shure PSM300 in ear to give us all FOH, for now, and are ditching the wedges, for the most part. The handful of times I've played with IEMs, they didn't use my cabs at all, just the head (post EQ from the pedal pre) to the board.

My thought is that I can get a 4U rack case, rack mount the IEM in half a 1U space (and can add a second for alt. mix, if we want), a 1U drawer for the receivers (5), and the Magellan (which is the most transparent and great for upright or electric). I generally set all amps to neutral and control my EQ with the Pre anyway; I keep it pretty simple - I'm playing folk, americana, and cowboy saddle songs with one band and outlaw country with the other (the latter is all electric; former is both, upright and electric). I would have to unplug one instrument and plug-in the other, when that applies; but the way we do it, I'm not switching back and forth a lot; it's a set of upright and set of electric, so switching what is plugged in isn't a problem. I think this would save some time and back muscles hauling gear, but you folks with more experience please let me know if this is a bad idea. Even for pros with in-ears, I often see full rigs onstage - is that for a good reason other than aesthetics, or is it just that they look cool; and will I likely miss having cabs on stage pumping out bass, in addition to the PA sub and in-ears?
 
#2
Why would you need the Megallen at all? You mentioned having a rig on stage, but if everything goes through the IEMs, than you’re not going to hear much of the amp anyway. Save yourself even more to schlep.
 
#3
Check out the Radial big shot I/0 to ease your instrument switching woes. It is cheap, durable, and effective.

Your plan will work just fine. You’ll have to lug the big rack around but your wireless and amp will stay safe. If you decide that you need a cab you’ll have the ability to use one. Keep a cab in the car if you have any free space! Most folks doing IEM will make up a pedalboard with preamp/DI that handles their gig, but there is nothing wrong with using the Magellan for this. The big bonus is you already have the Magellan so you don’t have to buy more gear.
 
#4
You can package your gear in whatever way makes sense. A big advantage of rack rigs is most of the wiring remains connected from one gig to the next. Another advantage is multiple pieces of gear are strapped together, so there are less items to keep track of.

A potential disadvantage is a rack can become big, heavy, and cumbersome. If the rack is an casters, it's transported in an equipment truck with a lift, and gear is rolled out of the truck at stage level, the size and weight are not a big deal. If you transport the gear in a car and have to lift it over obstacles such as curbs and stairs, the size and weight can be a huge detractor. Because of the situational nature of the problem, I used a rack rig for touring and a combo amp for smaller local gigs.

So it's really on you to consider when and how using rack will benefit you.
 
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#5
I guess my thought was that the amp would be there as a backup, and I wouldn’t need a DI for the electric; but you both make a great point. The Baggs Venue is a DI; I’ve used it direct several times, but always take an amp; probably just because I always have - but a large part of that is that both bands I play with just recently started using a good sub. I have always been under the impression that I still needed a DI for the electric, after the VT Bass, so I’ve used the head for that when not using a cab. I just read that maybe I don’t need a separate DI, and that the VT Bass can act as a DI itself, which is great.

In some settings, I do need to switch instruments, so I’ll grab a Big Shot - Thanks for the rec on that and for pointing out that I can get even skinnier if I want. Thanks to all of you for the advice.
 
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#6
NocoLaw said:
I guess my thought was that the amp would be there as a backup, and I wouldn’t need a DI for the electric; but you both make a great point. The Baggs Venue is a DI; I’ve used it direct several times, but always take an amp; probably just because I always have - but a large part of that is that both bands I play with just recently started using a good sub. I have always been under the impression that I still needed a DI for the electric, after the VT Bass, so I’ve used the head for that when not using a cab. I just read that maybe I don’t need a separate DI, and that the VT Bass can act as a DI itself, which is great.

In some settings, I do need to switch instruments, so I’ll grab a Big Shot - Thanks for the rec on that and for pointing out that I can get even skinnier if I want. Thanks to all of you for the advice.
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Ideally the preamp should have separate channels for both instrument to include gain, EQ, and a mute switch (minimum).

On tours I sometimes switched between bass guitar, upright, and electric upright. The front end of my rack rig was an Ashley MX508 rack mixer. This mixer did not have instrument level inputs, so I used Shure A96U line matching transformers to plug into the mic inputs. These days there are plenty of compact mixers with instrument level inputs.

You could also consider a two channel preamp like the Grace Design Felix or Headway EDB2 HE
 
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#7
NocoLaw said:
Even for pros with in-ears, I often see full rigs onstage - is that for a good reason other than aesthetics, or is it just that they look cool; and will I likely miss having cabs on stage pumping out bass, in addition to the PA sub and in-ears?
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Less is more. I will always go ampless when possible. Unless your speakers are part of your sound (like a guitarist) or the PA/mons aren't adequate, I don't see any good reason to have a rig on stage.

Will you miss it? I don't know what your musical training and skills are. If you've developed good listening and can hear yourself in the mix, you won't miss it. If you've learned to play with your bass needing to be the loudest thing you hear on stage, you might struggle at first, at least until you learn to listen a little better. (Of course if you have an individual mon mix you can still crank your bass and be the loudest thing in your ears if you really think you need that.)
 
#8
Thank you - that makes sense. I’m not a loudest rig on stage guy. The opposite; I am constantly too quiet, because I lay back when I hear my bass overpowering, like is often the case standing close to the amp. That is one motivator to go in-ear. We’ve played some cool places, but we’ve also played a lot of garbage rooms where it was hard to hear, places who say they have sound and monitors but have garbage, etc. That’s a huge part of it too, obviously, but I really want to hear what FOH is hearing, rather than the stage mix from where I stand; and our lead electric guitar needs them for the opposite reason - he is often annoyed with himself for being too much when he hears the recordings - probably, because he is hearing my amp too and trying to blast over it. I am just now venturing into more responsibility for the complete sound. Up to now, I just showed up and put my gear where I was supposed to put it and did my best to have a blast and do my job - that’s how I fell into the habit of having everything there, like we didn’t have good support (and plenty of the time in the past, we didn’t). I hadn’t really looked at IEMs for a long time, because they were so expensive when I first started playing seriously, and for several years, others provided all gear but my rig. This is a fun new adventure, and I appreciate the advice getting into it. I’m sure I’ll ask more dumb questions for someone who has been playing for 10+ years, because I really have had the luxury and crutch of being lazy about my sound. Someone else had the gear and the expertise, and they probably just humored me hooking up a combo or head/cab(s) rig. I ditched the tube head and fridge years ago for more modular gear, but I figure it’s past time to learn how to do the whole job (with help) and get streamlined, now that we have the budget and the opportunity. I would like to get into tablet controlled setups and all of the gear that is more accessible now than it used to be; but for now, we have sound guys often enough that the Venue PA and sub are enough for the times we don’t. Y’all are great - thank you!
 
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#9
Another thing worth trying with the Magellan is using the clean channel for your upright and the drive channel for your electric. I found that I could get pretty close to even output without needing much additional EQ work after getting the gains set. Of course if you need a squeaky clean electric sound things become tricky. I honestly think you have one of the best amps for doubling and the LR bags and Tech 21 are both aces at what they do. You already have everything you need, just experiment a bit and have some fun! Stop being so timid with your stage volume, everyone wants to hear you!
 
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