Replacing cabinet speakers with lower frequency ones?

Ian Canefire

Ian Canefire

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May 6, 2017
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#1
Hi,
Can someone with cabinet design software please help me. Plus answer this question...

I want to replace my speakers with a pair that go lower spec wise. If the speakers now in the cabinet are 50hz - 4khz and I want to put the same size speakers in but that are 35hz to 3.5khz.
Are there problems that I need to be aware of?

Thanks, looking for 212 16ohm speakers. Here is the combo cabinet.
US speaker has this at 16ohm
OR
this at 4ohm (put these in and connect in series)
OR
This Beyma


26" x 14" x 18"
2 port holes
Port hole diameters 4"
Port hole length 12"
12" speaker and another directly above it.
port holes are left and right of the speakers in the middle of the cabinet.

Cheers,
Ian
reggae bassist
 
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#4
As you can see, there are trade-offs. Deep bass reproduced at high volume requires a lot of displacement and power. Deep bass from a small cab results in relatively low sensitivity. A decrease of 3 db in sensitivity will require twice as much power to achieve the same volume. More likely you will lose 4-6 db in sensitivity. Fortunately, power (as in bass heads) has never been cheaper.

It might be helpful if we knew what issues you are trying to address by attempting to get more deep bass. We can maybe guess, since you are playing reggae, but please tell us anyway. Also, how much volume is needed, how much power do you have and how large are the venues you commonly play. What cab are you modifying, and what is its internal volume. Sealed or ported? Port dimensions?
 
#5
Thanks everyone for your replies. I was afraid I might hear something like you all are saying.
I have been asking many questions about the same cabinet which is this one here in this video. The Dimension are in the video.

One of the cones starts to make a sound like this "FFFFWWWWAAA" and I can see the edge of the speaker vibrating too much at certain settings. I just want to put the proper replacement speakers in this cabinet.

I tend to play in rooms that only hold less than 300 people. One venue (A) has about 50 -100 regularly and it is not large. Then (B) once a month outdoor at a restaurant (100 people) . Then (C) studio 200sq ft.
It sounds loud enough, I was just wondering if it can be made better than it was. Amp head is an old Eden at 300 watts at 4ohm. I have an avatar b210 as an extension. I now want the 212 to sound right. The coaxial 12 is the one making the bad noise at certain settings.

Thanks
Ian
 
#6
First off, I'll just say that yes, every post here is correct. Not disagreeing with any of what has been said already.

So now..what would I do? I'd stick a pair of the Delta LFC's in there and see what happens. Don't even bother with the 12B's, the LFC's have better power handling, better Xmax, and more low end. The Beyma's may even be better, but for the price I'd just buy a whole new cabinet.

Yeah it's a bit of a crap shoot, but not a 100% crapshoot. The cabinet is already designed and tuned for 12" woofers and so it's not like you're completely going against common sense here. Eminence drivers work wonderful in a variety of enclosures, they are very versatile. And if you are so inclined, you can contact Eminence with your cab dimensions and they will tell you which drivers work best, but I'd say those LFC's would be fine.
 
#9
Thanks for the advice everyone.
Budget: I don't want to exceed the cost of a brand new GK212. However, I was hoping to get that kind of performance albeit with a 300 watt Eden amp head. I like the sound of the Avatar B212 and would be happy with that also.

I bought an avatar b210 8ohm that I have paired with the 212 I am getting help from you all regarding.

The reason for the video is that it may be good to have a visual.
In any case here are the dimensions....

26" x 14" x 18"
2 port holes
Port hole diameters 4"
Port hole length 12"
12" speaker and another directly above it.
port holes are left and right of the speakers in the middle of the cabinet.

Cheers,
Ian
 
#11
@AstroSonic that is the issue. I want to be able to use the 212 at 8ohm and my avatar b210 at 8ohm. combined 4ohm load at 300 watts.

There doesn't seem to be many 16ohm 12"s in the market place that are reasonably priced. SO it's either two 4ohms in series or more costly beymas or faitals with specs that are not amazing. At least that is what I seem to have learned now.
 
#12
There are many options here but I think the best would be to go with a cabinet made and designed for deeper bass. Several bass cab makers do make these. I know acme, barefaced to name a few. Might be a better option.
 
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#13
Ian Canefire said:
Hi,
Can someone with cabinet design software please help me. Plus answer this question...

I want to replace my speakers with a pair that go lower spec wise. If the speakers now in the cabinet are 50hz - 4khz and I want to put the same size speakers in but that are 35hz to 3.5khz.
Are there problems that I need to be aware of?

Thanks, looking for 212 16ohm speakers. Here is the combo cabinet.
US speaker has this at 16ohm
OR
this at 4ohm (put these in and connect in series)
OR
This Beyma


26" x 14" x 18"
2 port holes
Port hole diameters 4"
Port hole length 12"
12" speaker and another directly above it.
port holes are left and right of the speakers in the middle of the cabinet.

Cheers,
Ian
reggae bassist
Click to expand...
I've gotten great results using Eminences bp legend stuff. My ampeg 410he cab has bp102 200w tens in it and it smokes the factory speakers. It's louder, deeper, and they aren't super expensive. They are made pretty much as replacement speakers for bass cabs though.
 
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#15
Also just to add...if you want 16 ohm speakers, you can order raw Gallien Krueger speakers. They are a little pricey, but I've used these before and they are 'very similar' to Eminence Deltalites.

NEO412, NEO212 - Paragon 12", 300W, 16 Ohm, Neodymium Bass Driver - gallien-krueger.com


I have also used these, and actually have a pair of them sitting right here. They are 4 ohm drivers they use in the MB112 combo and powered cabinets. They are pretty darn robust sounding, but the ones mentioned above are deeper and clearer sounding.

MB112, 112MBP - Paragon12" 300W, 4 Ohm, Ceramic Bass Driver - gallien-krueger.com
 
#17
I don't know and I couldn't find any specs that say it, but if it's a combo, there is a good possibility that it may have been designed with a high pass filter to protect itself. Your efforts with speaker changes may be completely futile. Not knowing how low and what SPL you are hoping to achieve, even if the high pass filter were not there, you may run out of your 300 watts before you hit you goal.
 
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#18
I'm not a big fan of modifying cabinets - it is a great way to make something even harder to sell.

My advice is sell what you have and retool for the tone you're after. It is OK. Rigs come and go in most working bassists situations. I completely changed rigs to get the sound that fits in the band I'm in.

The fix for you? As much power and as much speaker surface as you can afford to buy and transport. For your genre, a high power head such as an Ampeg PF-800 and a an Ampeg HLF 410 would be a reasonable starting place.
 
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#19
If you look on Ebay and Reverb you can find deals on Deltas or Deltalites in 16 ohm. I bought off Reverb a pair of clean used 10 inch Deltalites in 16 ohm for only $60 shipped to my door. Awesome speakers! Look around and you can find budget friendly deals out there to make it work.
 
#20
And I said:
Eden is just not about the deep bass. Its sound is more about the low-mids. I don't think you have the correct rig for that super low boomy reggae thing. Ampeg 410 HLF sounds like what you want.
Click to expand...

Actually that Eden CXC-212 had a pretty decent frequency response. It's rated at 42Hz-20KHz, so we know the cab goes down to 42Hz anyhow...
 
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