Double Bass Research/Getting Started

Ned Smith

Ned Smith

Jan 1, 2024
50
13
641
86
Near Chattanooga, TN
#1
After reading John Dilworth article on factors that shape sound, it seems everything is up for grabs. So I will state my beginning restraints and where I believe I want to go. If you think I am on the wrong foot, please set me straight.
This DB will be for a jazz group only. No bowing, just plucking. I think this allows me to do away with the pinched waist between the bouts. Which changes the interior volume of the body.
The back will be 1/2" Birch plywood. The front could be cedar, spruce, or mahogany. I have used mahogany in the sound boards of hammer dulcimers. I don't see any mention of it in DB literature.
That should get me started.
Thanks for your responses.

--
Ned Smith
 
#2
Just so you're aware, there are other good reasons to have the C bouts... Like, for example, a way to carry the instrument. Plus there may be sonic reasons for the C's.

That said, if it's going to be a different shape anyway, you may want to just install handles on it for carrying.

This isn't saying you're going a wrong direction, but you may want to identify what you want to accomplish with the finished instrument before changing a lot of things. Visual recognition of a DB can be important to some people, others not so much.
 
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#6
 
#7
C bouts are also useful for propping your bass up on the amp, a piano bench, the tripod stand that Gollihur sells, etc. But I would keep them because if the bass does turn out well, then someone might just want to use the bow with it every once in while. Even us jazz guys have to get out the bow out at least occasionally, and it's better for tuning and practicing intonation.
 
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#8
the way it looks from here, I feel you've got to decide whether you are making a double bass - in which case there are some established rules of thumb, forms sizes material etc - or whether you want to cobble together something that you can pluck in a jazz band that sounds a bit like double bass and feels a bit like a double bass and looks a bit weird, that you probably won't be able to sell later.

If you're going to make a double bass, you're probably going to put a lot of time and effort into it, so skimping on materials and stuff is a false economy. And for your first build it would be most straightforward not to try and reinvent the wheel but using established design. buying some established literature and reading it a dozen times is good and time worth spending. And buying good materials as well.

on the other hand, If you're just wanting to cobble something together and design it as you go then all bets are off, do whatever you like, maybe it'll sound okay, maybe it won't… just make sure you can put strings on it and fit it in your car!

If you've got skills, time, some money, a lot of patience, and energy .., I would recommend you do it properly and build a double bass that will be the envy of your colleagues.
 
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#9
mahogany is a great word for back and sides, and you can use many other things as well as louis wrote. plywood sounds easy ... but i promise is going to be difficult to work with! Spruce, white pine,
Cyprus and Cedar all make good bass tops and you can probably use other woods as well. But why experiment unless you have a good reason to do so?

lastly, remember the luthier mantra

"stay away from PVA"
 
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#11
Thanks for all the replies. I have ordered two of the books recommended.
My goal here is to build an instrument of the highest quality that I am capable of and sounds good in the hands of an expert. My learning how to play it is a by-product of having the DB around. Resale value is my least concern.
I will use locally available woods (maple, Western Red Cedar, Poplar and Mahogany). I like the idea of using door skins for the sides.
I like the idea of using plywood for the back because I had a poplar back split when subjected to wide temperature variations.
 
#12
You're changing too many variables all at once.

Oddball materials
Oddball shape
Oddball construction

And no experience in building a large highly tensioned violin family instrument.

It seems to the uninformed that "surely to goodness we could do it way better", but in actual practice it's rarely so. If your goal is to build basses, I'd suggest starting with one of conventional design and material, then learn where changes can and can't be made.

If your goal is to play double bass, building your own isn't the way to get started - the way to get started is to buy or rent a decent student instrument and a bow, engage a qualified instructor, and start a course of lessons.

I'll also point out that by the time you build this "object", you'll probably have spent quite a bit more money than just buying a good quality inexpensive plywood upright (Shen, Christopher, etc.)

I am reminded of the cornet player I knew who decided to build his own bass. He certainly had the manual skills, but he decided to build it based on using a large bass drum rather than conventional methods, undoubtedly thinking of banjos. Well, it weighed 80 lbs (normal DB weighs about 30) wouldn't fit in the car, and had a puny low quality sound.

No, I'm not an instrument builder, but I am a double bass player, and a mechanical engineer with 40 years of experience in designing and launching products for commercial sale; and I can tell you that coming in from left field without knowledge of existing technology, processes, and designs almost never yields good results.
 
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#13
there's a lot of good advice here above. Well done for ordering the books.

"My goal here is to build an instrument of the highest quality that I am capable of and sounds good in the hands of an expert."

so, forget about plywood and door skins and weird shapes, buy conventional materials and parts, build a normal double bass with skill and care, and you'll end up with a bass much nicer than your average Student bass. Jowever it'll take time and persistence, and you won't be playing it for awhile.
 
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#17
T_Bone_TL said:
As for something easier to build without forms, etc. these folks appear to have abandoned the kit they used to make and put the plans up for free:

Suitcase Bass Plan - Download

IIRC it's designed to be easily taken down for transportability.
Click to expand...

This is the second generation Suitcase Bass; the neck gives it away. I have a first generation, whose neck is perfect for a three-stringer, but not four. I find the neck on the second generation a bit too chunky to be comfortable. For me.

This is the first generation. The neck is removable, which means it also is adjustable. If I wanted to make a removable neck bass, this approach is far simpler and probably no less efficient/effective than anything I have seen on the web.

upload_2024-1-13_16-41-30.jpeg


Anybody who wants to try to make one of these needs to pay particular attention to the thickness of the plates, the top especially. The originals are far too thin and will collapse under string pressure.

Here is information for their Baroque Bass. I have one of these as well.

https://www.harpkit.com/mm5/pdf/Instructions/BaroqueBassKit.pdf

upload_2024-1-13_16-49-44.jpeg
 

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#18
Huh, I have (purchased, on paper) plans for the baroque bass from long ago, (after they had stopped making that kit) and could not find it on the website when I was posting earlier.

Thanks for linking that.

I've made a Harp kit and assisted someone in making the Renaissance guitar kit.
 
#19
T_Bone_TL said:
Huh, I have (purchased, on paper) plans for the baroque bass from long ago, (after they had stopped making that kit) and could not find it on the website when I was posting earlier.

Thanks for linking that.

I've made a Harp kit and assisted someone in making the Renaissance guitar kit.
Click to expand...

If you really want to take a crack at making a Baroque Bass, I have a couple of suggestions. If at all possible, give it f-holes like on a regular DB. F-hole instruments just seem to be louder than round-holes. Something about sound dispersement, I suspect.

And try to substitute as a body, this body here.

Liutaio Mottola Lutherie Information Website

(Canotto Upright Acoustic Bass)

Way back when the Baroque Bass was just a gleam in Musicmaker's eye I was in touch with them and suggested that, based on their Renaissance Bass and Suitcase Bass, the body of the Baroque Bass could be longer and that long neck on the B. B. still be preserved. What I had in mind was the Musicmaker's neck on the Mottola body. The stock endpin on the B. B. is short enough you could get away with that and have a large body with a still longer than DB normal neck. More notes clear of the body.

My advice was not taken. Still, IMO either the Renaissance Bass or the Baroque Bass would make an ideal bass for patio/pool parties, house parties, or front-porch pickin' parties.
 
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