Double Bass rib depth and wrist pain

[Baxel]

Hello people, I'm looking for information on a specific matter, a little while ago I bought a double bass online from Romania to here in Chile, it was sent to me in two parts, neck and body, a luthier assembled it for me, it's a good bass carved, beautiful sound, but when playing for just a few minutes my left wrist hurts, I have looked for information because it had never happened to me with other basses, I play since 2008, I have tried many basses too and I had never felt that , even now I am in three musical groups where I play three different basses and with none that happens to me.

it may be due to the degree of scoop on the fingerboard or the thickness of the neck (but I check that with the other basses I play and I don't think it has anything to do with it) and another option is that the ribs are very deep, in this case 7 inches at the end of the neck and 9 at the bottom, which is not so common, and it is very large from what I have investigated... I don't feel that it has anything to do with the height of the strings either, in that sense I feel them soft because they are thomastik light and I use from G to E, 6.5 - 7 - 9 - 10

Anyway, I'm trying to transport the bass to the capital where the luthier seems to be the best in the country, which is two hours from here but being thicker than a normal 3/4 it doesn't fit in any of my other bags.

I made the mistake of not asking about the rib depth since from all the information about measurements that he sent me, everything seemed normal.

In any case, I feel that the scoop is very deep to what I am used to, but will it be so deep that it causes pain in my left wrist? I always worry about maintaining good posture and it had never hurt me even with basses with the action very high

and that for now, the sound is very rich and deep and I like it, but the comfort issue keeps me using my other two Chinese plywood double basses

Thanks for reading this far, any information would be greatly appreciated, from a country where there is not much information about this precious and physical instrument.
Greetings from Chile and thank you very much in advance.


(sorry if my english is a bit poor, anyway thanks to the internet it's better than gustavo fring's spanish)

 

[Steven Ayres]

I'm not clear how the rib depth will have any effect on your wrist. Do you think you're distorting your playing posture to accommodate the ribs? Is the top of the neck higher or lower than what you're used to (endpin extension)? Do you have the habit of watching your left hand as you play?

"Scoop" (relief) in the neck is a setup choice, and you'll feel that much more when playing up the neck. You had a local luthier set this up for you, and in your place I'd ask them about what you're feeling, maybe get some help with it.

thanks to the internet it's better than gustavo fring's spanish)

Ha!

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

In my opinion, the maximum scoop should be at the octave which is halfway between the nut and bridge. At that point the amount of scoop should be approximately equal to the diameter of the string, maybe a bit more under the G string. The scoop should be a consistent arc which may change under tension as the neck bends a bit. Neck and fingerboard thickness is a personal preference but around 40mm in first position seems to work for most people. It needs to be thick enough to allow the hand to stretch comfortably to play a full step (Ab to Bb on the G string in half position). Much thicker than that is unnecessary unless the neck wood is soft and needed for strength. I recently replaced a fingerboard and left it very thick, which made the neck about 45mm thick. Much too thick for me but the customer loves it.
Rib depth is irrelevant. My main axe is about 9” at the heel.

 

[LouisF]

Have you checked the overstand between the neck and the body (just past the block). It might be just enough of a different angle to be an issue. The other issue might be the strings? If the new bass has higher tension (not string height) steel strings from your other basses that could cause some stress to the hand and wrist - at least initially.

 

[Baxel]

I'm not clear how the rib depth will have any effect on your wrist. Do you think you're distorting your playing posture to accommodate the ribs? Is the top of the neck higher or lower than what you're used to (endpin extension)? Do you have the habit of watching your left hand as you play?

"Scoop" (relief) in the neck is a setup choice, and you'll feel that much more when playing up the neck. You had a local luthier set this up for you, and in your place I'd ask them about what you're feeling, maybe get some help with it.



Ha!

Thanks for answering, I have read right here in TB that the rib depth is very important in ergonomic issues, but I myself have come to the conclusion that it may be because it tends to move my arm further away from the fretboard and therefore cause pain when playing for minutes, since it is a pain that does not manifest itself immediately but after a while, I studied double bass with a good teacher for 5 years, played in several orchestras and apart from the small discomfort in my back due to fatigue (I have always played foot) had not felt this.

And no, I don't tend to look at my left hand much more than any bass player does.

The luthier who assembled it told me to take it to check that perhaps the temperature could have changed somewhat since he hit the neck, but unfortunately it's not "local" either, it's about an hour from here, and because of the bag I mentioned Before, it's just as troublesome as visiting the best of all...

Here are a couple of photos

Thanks again for replying, a hug

 

[Baxel]

Have you checked the overstand between the neck and the body (just past the block). It might be just enough of a different angle to be an issue. The other issue might be the strings? If the new bass has higher tension (not string height) steel strings from your other basses that could cause some stress to the hand and wrist - at least initially.

I don't know how to really measure the overstand or what would be its effect on the playability but here is a picture of it
(just where the neck ends)

Thank you

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Are you standing or sitting while playing?

 

[David Potts]

"Sitting or standing" is a valid question. With the exception of the deeper ribs the bass looks about "normal" in shape and dimensions. You may have spotted the problem - the bass neck is further from your neck and shoulder than other basses. Perhaps try two things. The first is to observe the way you approach the basses that you are comfortable with to see the distance their necks are from your shoulder, neck and face. Try and adjust the new bass height and angles/amount of lean towards your body that will put the neck in the same relative position. The second is to observe whether the new bass is causing your wrist to pronate (bend) more. This will reduce the strength of your grip and tire the hand, leading to the pain you have. I try to make myself comfortable then bring the bass to me. I sit to play and I want to lift my arm from my side and have my hand fall naturally on the strings with a nearly straight wrist and a nice flow from my elbow to my fingers. This works very well for the top three strings but I do have some pronation on the E string that I try to minimise. If I need to sustain notes on the E string I will close up my fingers, drop my elbow and adjust my thumb to straighten out the pronation and increase endurance. I attached my picture, not out of vanity but to show my approach in action. One basic approach I was taught is to keep an imaginary arrow from my chest pointing towards where I am bowing (or at the bridge).

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The height of the ribs has most influence on the neck-head distance if you play standing with a absolute vertical bass. But this is not needed.

One may have some reasons not to angle the bass, most important if your endpin slips, but there are good rubber balls now that don’t slip and for a naked tip you can make something like a cello strip that can be fastened somewhere (i.e. at your foot if standing).

I once asked what a Laborie pin does and could held a bass with one. It is the same bass position as sitting but when standing. The slipping risk is smaller with a Laborie endpin and the weight of the neck for the left hand is smaller, but I still play my (short) straight endpin (4/4 size instrument) and angle the bass so that the neck comes towards me.

So just try it with your bass as it is now (extend the endpin a bit more). If the weight for the left hand is a bit much, you might want to consider a Laborie endpin or a similar reversible solution like the RobPin.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I agree with @David Potts ' points above. Also, I just measured the rib depth of the two basses in my office, and the Shen has about 8" rib depth at the top and the LaScala is between 8.25-8.5". Neither has ever been a problem or seemed out of the ordinary in any way. I would bet the issue lies elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[Baxel]

Thank you all for answering, it gives me some hope that the matter has some solution that is not selling it and buying another because here there are very few offers and I still do not pay it even ... greetings from the south of the world, Chile.

I'll tell you how I am doing

 

[David Potts]

Baxel, can you ask someone to take photos of how you sit/stand with the bass(es) when you play? Some pictures will save a thousand words. Also tell us which music you are playing, classical or jazz?

 

[David Potts]

Is the combined thickness of neck, fingerboard and string heights significantly different and less comfortable than the basses that you have played previously? This may contribute to the discomfort.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I suffered much wrist and forearm pain many years ago when I switched to a different bass after 30 years. I did everything to set it up like my old bass, light strings, low string height, minimal scoop, and while the playing got somewhat easier, I still had to watch myself to not play too hard and with tension. I eventually sold the bass.

Some basses, I've learned from this, just play tight.

 

[Trivolis]

Hello people, I'm looking for information on a specific matter, a little while ago I bought a double bass online from Romania to here in Chile, it was sent to me in two parts, neck and body, a luthier assembled it for me, it's a good bass carved, beautiful sound, but when playing for just a few minutes my left wrist hurts, I have looked for information because it had never happened to me with other basses, I play since 2008, I have tried many basses too and I had never felt that , even now I am in three musical groups where I play three different basses and with none that happens to me.

it may be due to the degree of scoop on the fingerboard or the thickness of the neck (but I check that with the other basses I play and I don't think it has anything to do with it) and another option is that the ribs are very deep, in this case 7 inches at the end of the neck and 9 at the bottom, which is not so common, and it is very large from what I have investigated... I don't feel that it has anything to do with the height of the strings either, in that sense I feel them soft because they are thomastik light and I use from G to E, 6.5 - 7 - 9 - 10

Anyway, I'm trying to transport the bass to the capital where the luthier seems to be the best in the country, which is two hours from here but being thicker than a normal 3/4 it doesn't fit in any of my other bags.

I made the mistake of not asking about the rib depth since from all the information about measurements that he sent me, everything seemed normal.

In any case, I feel that the scoop is very deep to what I am used to, but will it be so deep that it causes pain in my left wrist? I always worry about maintaining good posture and it had never hurt me even with basses with the action very high

and that for now, the sound is very rich and deep and I like it, but the comfort issue keeps me using my other two Chinese plywood double basses

Thanks for reading this far, any information would be greatly appreciated, from a country where there is not much information about this precious and physical instrument.
Greetings from Chile and thank you very much in advance.


(sorry if my english is a bit poor, anyway thanks to the internet it's better than gustavo fring's spanish)

Hey man,
I took a look at the pics. The bridge seems to be placed way too high up the body of the bass.What's the string length on that baby?Did the luthier cut the grooves on the bridge,they look like s**t... Also the fingerboard doesn't look good,poor paint job and I very much doubt that the scoop is player friendly.
I would send the bass back ,honestly(if that's an option).
If not 1)tell the luthier to reposition the bridge to the correct spot and cut new grooves on it so that half part of each string is in the groove.
2)Lower your string heights to 5-8 mm.
3)Height between string and fingerboard at the nut: tell him to make as low as it can go without having the strings buzzing.
4)Press each string just below the nut and at the end of the fingerboard:Look at the distance between string and fingerboard at its high point- it should be no more than the thickness of the string .
5)Weichs are not exactly low tension strings,get some Pirastro Perpetuals.
6) Tell him to reposition the soundpost so that it has a slightly bigger distance from the edge of the G side bridge foot.
If all this doesn't work you're in trouble..!!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Yeah, the setup looks like the luthier was drunk. Could you stop the E string at the octave and show us a photo of how much room is between the string and the board around Bb?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I have rib height if 22 to 22.5 cm on my 4/4, 110 cm 5-string. No problem at all, but I angle the bass a bit, similar to a sitting position, so that the neck comes closer. But long ago I even played that bass straight upright and that worked too, but not as comfortable as the angled position now.

 

[uprightbass.com]

I think the OP moved on a year ago.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

I only play the electric bass and won't be much of a help but IMHO if the bass is causing pain on your wrist, stop playing it. I got carpal tunnel syndrome on both wrists, and you don't want that happening. Good luck!

 

[Trivolis]

I think the OP moved on a year ago.

You mean he got another bass? Good for him...