Single Coil vs Humbucker Distortion

DOOMonkee

DOOMonkee

Jul 9, 2020
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#1
Hello! I have a Jazz bass with DiMarzio Model J humbuckers and a P bass with DiMarzio Will Power pickups. My question is, with bass guitars, am I more likely to get a better distortion tone (more barking like Lemmy from Motorhead) if I switch to single coils for the Jazz bass?

I know half of this is playing style and the amp, I only ask, because the Jazz bass sounds a bit farty and goofy with the Model Js on the Orange OB1 gain at 3 or 4 (in my opinion), while the P bass roars at just about any setting. I also have to hit the Jazz strings significantly harder to get a comparable snarl to the P bass. Is this just the OB1 being picky or will single coils that emphasize the upper mids and treble be a better choice when pairing with gain?

So, this is half - how do single coils in bass guitars react to gain, and half - I think I want my Jazz bass to sound like a Jazz bass again with single coils, how much will I lose/gain as far as achieving the above sounds? I was looking at the 60s Jazz bass pickups because I enjoy their sound, I just don't know if I'm going down the right path.
 
#2
Before swapping pickups, I’d try different strings and a good setup. I’d also try wiring the pickups in parallel and adding a loading capacitor (or a few, on a switch) to fine tune the sound.

the problem with single coils is that they will hum, which is not great with distortion... yes, they’re typically a bit more aggressive sounding, but you should be able to get close with split coils. The fact that your P does the job supports this point. I’d probably avoid single coils until exhausting other possibilities. If the Model Js just don’t work, try other split coils, or perhaps even stacked coils (worked well for Cliff Burton). Personally for sure I’d try Wilde J45s - their P bass pickup did exactly what I thought the DiMarzio Model P would but didn’t.
 
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#3
sikamikanico said:
Before swapping pickups, I’d try different strings and a good setup. I’d also try wiring the pickups in parallel and adding a loading capacitor (or a few, on a switch) to fine tune the sound.

the problem with single coils is that they will hum, which is not great with distortion... yes, they’re typically a bit more aggressive sounding, but you should be able to get close with split coils. The fact that your P does the job supports this point. I’d probably avoid single coils until exhausting other possibilities. If the Model Js just don’t work, try other split coils, or perhaps even stacked coils (worked well for Cliff Burton). Personally for sure I’d try Wilde J45s - their P bass pickup did exactly what I thought the DiMarzio Model P would but didn’t.
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I appreciate the response, yeah the hum is one factor that I was balancing with because I know that's one thing that may seem "small" while I am not experiencing it, but will become a completely different issue if I was to actually use them.

I swapped Elixirs for D'Addario strings I had for more aggressive sounds, and had a proper professional setup of the bass to make sure everything plays well. I did a "zero load" tone pot which brought back some of the highs, but it doesn't beat the treble of the stock pickups. I looked at those Wilde J45 pickups, they look interesting. My other option, seeing that they follow this interest, was to look into the Fender Noiseless Jazz pickups, the DiMarzio Area Js, or a Seymour Duncan humbucker.

I do think adding a series/parallel option is a good idea, I caught exactly one demo with this, and while I think the audio isn't bad, the drum kit is too loud, haha. It does add a bit more of that bite that I'm looking for, which is promising.

 
#4
Wanted to follow up on this in case it is helpful, parallel config of the DiMarzio Model Js are very okay sounding except when wired parallel with themselves and then the two pickups in series with each other. For a super loud, and fat sounding option everything in series is cool, but it's very dark and boomy. In parallel, they do thin out, and with that they still don't reach the same bright characteristics that make the Jazz unique. I've also found that because of the increased output of the split coil Model Js, they produce a farty distorted sound too easily when gain is applied from the OB1. This is when I tried the Wilde pickups.

Without gain:
I think they do an excellent job at being very neutral across the spectrum, they have great treble, mids, and bass. Clean is the best way I could describe them, and I don't think too many would be upset with the change in sound because of this. For comparison, the Model Js change the sound of the Jazz to be thicker and a little darker. They are cool, but for what its worth, the pickups are in between the sound of a P bass and a Jazz bass, which in my experience, lost the qualities that make either stand out and settling for a boring middle ground that does neither its true justice (just my opinion).

With gain:
Where the Wilde J-45 pickups excel, is that they just enhance weaker areas of the Jazz's single coils and take very little away. What I've found for the best variety of sounds is a push-pull series option, and a push-pull phase switch option. I also added a push-pull for a kill-switch to make life a bit easier. With these configurations, these are excellent choices for those who want to retain the Jazz character almost in whole, but want a pickup that also takes gain wonderfully. Pairing these with the Orange OB1 sounds awesome, as you can get a lot of grunt with standard wiring, and can obtain very unique, aggressive sounds with the pickups out of phase and the gain increased (moving more into guitar territory).

If anyone would like a wiring diagram for the Wilde J-45 pickups with the series, phase, and kill switch config I'd be happy to post here.

Thanks to sikamikanico for the suggestion, these have worked out great!
 
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#6
I've used a Darkglass Microtubes X pedal and a Darkglass Microtubes 500W amp to test as well, both sound pretty good with just about any bass. It's something about how the OB1 blends those distorted upper harmonics that it can go from a brutal grunt to a buzzy distortion, that sounds like it's trying to replicate the synth from Black Sabbath's "Who Are You" on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (not exactly obviously, haha, but it breaks up similarly).

I've been using the OB1 as the benchmark since the distortion is a little weird with the gain around 9 or 10 o'clock for some pickups. The P bass almost always sounds good through it, but the Model Js just didn't capture what I was going for with it. The biggest difference is that when using the stacked coils you can crank the gain more to get the grunt without getting a farty sound at low gain.

Admittedly I am a noob, but if it's helpful I can attempt to make sound clips of the Wilde pickups vs the Bartolinis in the Ibanez SR505E: clean, out of phase, series, combos of the above, and finally those combos with gain through the OB1 and the Microtubes 500W.

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to go back and plug the Model Js back in to do a full comparison, it's a bit more effort than I'd like, but the Bartolinis are pretty close to the Model Js in how they handle the gain of the OB1-500 so I can use those for a decent comparison.
 
#8
Yeah, I pulled them into the cavity to offset the low end, but I don't think they work for what sound I was going for/removed too much of the Jazz sound. They aren't bad pickups, but after playing with them, they just aren't my preference.
 
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#9
For those interested, here is my wiring diagram of series (both pickups, with bridge as master volume), phase shift, and kill switch on the tone. If it's helpful or more appropriate I can always migrate this info elsewhere since this is a little off topic from my original question, haha. If anything is unclear or too busy please let me know, the audio jack is on the far right with the return not soldered due to that lead being electrically connected to the jazz bass metal plate (acting as a return) so therefore you can leave that floating.

Wilde-j45

Wilde-j45

Three push-pull pots: neck is series, bridge is phase, and tone is kill switch.
 
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