Strange right hand observation (#2)

[vindibona1]

In an earlier thread I stated that my right hand's I and M fingers seemed to correspond in my brain as right and left hands; I being a left-hand substitute and M being the right substitute. Being a relative newbie to 2-finger plucking I was curious as to which finger one should start with.

As I practice I've noticed one particular pattern: When descending with my left hand's fingers I tend to start with the M finger. When ascending in my left hand (like fingers 1-2-4) my natural tendency is to start with my index finger on my right hand. When I try to switch it up, it's like going against the grain and hand confusion ensues. Now add in some raking (which I tend do to naturally) and I really have to consciously think about what my right had is doing because I really have no clue. Sometimes I'll pluck single finger, sometimes alternating fingers, sometimes raking. My right hand just does what it wants to do- sometimes well and efficiently, but then sometimes I'm not executing musically what I have in my head. I've been working on efficiency picking in my guitar work and on 6 string with a pick it just knows where to go. When I stop to think about it it just confuses everything. But now the tendency carries over to bass, and not always with the best results.

Any thoughts on developing the right hand?

 

[ba55i5t]

In an earlier thread I stated that my right hand's I and M fingers seemed to correspond in my brain as right and left hands; I being a left-hand substitute and M being the right substitute. Being a relative newbie to 2-finger plucking I was curious as to which finger one should start with.

As I practice I've noticed one particular pattern: When descending with my left hand's fingers I tend to start with the M finger. When ascending in my left hand (like fingers 1-2-4) my natural tendency is to start with my index finger on my right hand. When I try to switch it up, it's like going against the grain and hand confusion ensues. Now add in some raking (which I tend do to naturally) and I really have to consciously think about what my right had is doing because I really have no clue. Sometimes I'll pluck single finger, sometimes alternating fingers, sometimes raking. My right hand just does what it wants to do- sometimes well and efficiently, but then sometimes I'm not executing musically what I have in my head. I've been working on efficiency picking in my guitar work and on 6 string with a pick it just knows where to go. When I stop to think about it it just confuses everything. But now the tendency carries over to bass, and not always with the best results.

Any thoughts on developing the right hand?

I think you are overthinking this.

Strict alternation is generally the best medicine for these types of situations.

Left hand right hand only come together to produce a sound so they should be working in harmony, yes, but left hand counts in 4s, right hand is I/M (or with the added P [pollux]; R [ring]). They do not speak to each other but they meet at the same time in different places to produce a note.

 

[Wasnex]

In an earlier thread I stated that my right hand's I and M fingers seemed to correspond in my brain as right and left hands; I being a left-hand substitute and M being the right substitute. Being a relative newbie to 2-finger plucking I was curious as to which finger one should start with.

As I practice I've noticed one particular pattern: When descending with my left hand's fingers I tend to start with the M finger. When ascending in my left hand (like fingers 1-2-4) my natural tendency is to start with my index finger on my right hand. When I try to switch it up, it's like going against the grain and hand confusion ensues. Now add in some raking (which I tend do to naturally) and I really have to consciously think about what my right had is doing because I really have no clue. Sometimes I'll pluck single finger, sometimes alternating fingers, sometimes raking. My right hand just does what it wants to do- sometimes well and efficiently, but then sometimes I'm not executing musically what I have in my head. I've been working on efficiency picking in my guitar work and on 6 string with a pick it just knows where to go. When I stop to think about it it just confuses everything. But now the tendency carries over to bass, and not always with the best results.

Any thoughts on developing the right hand?

IMHO, The starting finger in the plucking hand should be driven by string crossings rather than which fingers you are using with your fretting hand. At lower tempos you can adhere to a strictly alternating approach with the plucking hand and start with either finger. At higher tempos there are times when starting with one finger or the other provides a significant benefit. When you come across a lick that doesn't lay well with your natural plucking tendency, slow down, figure out the best finger pattern, and then work it up to tempo. With time and practice it gets easier.

If you look hard enough, I am sure you could find an exercise book designed to address plucking technique. Plucking is especially a big deal with flamenco and classical guitar. I sometimes mess around with thumb, index, middle, ring finger patterns and integrating them into finger style and double thumb slap licks. IMHO the pinkie is not very useful for plucking bass, at least mine isn't.

 

[vindibona1]

I think you are overthinking this.

Strict alternation is generally the best medicine for these types of situations.

Left hand right hand only come together to produce a sound so they should be working in harmony, yes, but left hand counts in 4s, right hand is I/M (or with the added P [pollux]; R [ring]). They do not speak to each other but they meet at the same time in different places to produce a note.

Overthink? I don't think so. I'm finding issue with my plucking hand as the things that come naturally don't seem proper. Cerebrally I'm disconnected from my right hand when playing bass (and sometimes even flat-picked guitar). I've got to find out what's proper so I can unwire what's going on and learn the right way.

IMHO, The starting finger in the plucking hand should be driven by string crossings rather than which fingers you are using with your fretting hand. At lower tempos you can adhere to a strictly alternating approach with the plucking hand and start with either finger. At higher tempos there are times when starting with one finger or the other provides a significant benefit. When you come across a lick that doesn't lay well with your natural plucking tendency, slow down, figure out the best finger pattern, and then work it up to tempo. With time and practice it gets easier.

If you look hard enough, I am sure you could find an exercise book designed to address plucking technique. Plucking is especially a big deal with flamenco and classical guitar. I sometimes mess around with thumb, index, middle, ring finger patterns and integrating them into finger style and double thumb slap licks. IMHO the pinkie is not very useful for plucking bass, at least mine isn't.

I'm going to have to work on this for sure. With guitar I've worked very hard to establish "efficiency picking" so that the pick continues in the same direction as I change strings. I'm finding the same tendency to do naturally with two fingered plucking which confuses the whole thing. My longer middle finger also likes to dominate because it's right there while the shorter index has to reach for everything unless the middle is taking out of the picture.

 

[RandM]

I concentrate on feel first. I use anything from a one finger pluck, one finger with a backstroke, straight two fingers using either index or mid'finger as the 1 - even alternating like a paradidle and I'm bringing the third finger into play now.

I try and use whatever produces the Groove - when a song asks me for something and either hand get's crossed up trying to play it, then that's when I work out a specific fingering pattern.

Cheers Maurie.

 

[vindibona1]

I concentrate on feel first.

"Feel" is the thing that I have to become consciously aware of. I confess that I've been totally unconscious of my right hand and let it do it's thing. But even when I'm concentrating hard, I sometimes don't even know which finger I'm using at any given moment. Sometimes I have to slow down and rewind just to figure out what I just did, even if it was slow and deliberate. That is the challenge for me right now- just to discover an awareness of which finger is doing what at a given time.

I use anything from a one finger pluck, one finger with a backstroke, straight two fingers using either index or mid'finger as the 1 - even alternating like a paradidle and I'm bringing the third finger into play now.

I try and use whatever produces the Groove - when a song asks me for something and either hand get's crossed up trying to play it, then that's when I work out a specific fingering pattern.

At this time I'm trying to be super deliberate and strict alternating. I need to "delink" my right and left hands and yet maintain synchronization. I know that on a practical level all that goes out the window, but I need to become comfortable learning to do what I'm finding uncomfortable at this moment. I've learned some exercises to do that which help with the awareness factor as well. At least there is some crossover in the left hand from guitar to bass

 

[RandM]

The best explanation of "Feel/Groove" I've heard was from Victor Wooton. Check out some of his UTubes like Theory is Simple and some of him working with students.

With the plucking I don't feel that there is a strict rule that "fits all" though - only what fits the song and gives it groove for you.

Being deliberate and strict is fine too, when I get crossed up and have to workout a particular pattern, THAT'S when I get deliberate and strict and train the memory muscles.

In learning a song I'll learn the Key/scales/notes I have to play. If there's a part that needs a different plucking fingering pattern than I know, I get deliberate and strict to get on top of that. Once I've got it down I practice the song
until I'm confident and don't have to think about it much - then I stop thinking about ANY of that and concentrate on Groove.

Cheers Maurie.

 

[jallenbass]

Though I work on starting with either finger my natural tendency is to start with my index. Strict alternation is what makes me play tricky lines cleanly. Raking, unless doing consciously, mucks things up for me.

 

[Lobster11]

I recently realized that I do exactly the same thing, at least when starting from scratch: i.e., I start with my index finger when ascending and my middle finger when descending. Now that I've noticed this I'm making it a point to practice doing the opposite: I practice scales both ascending and descending, making sure that in each direction I start half the time with one finger and half the time the other. My goal is for both to feel equally "natural," so I can do whichever works best in a given situation.

 

[vindibona1]

I recently realized that I do exactly the same thing, at least when starting from scratch: i.e., I start with my index finger when ascending and my middle finger when descending. Now that I've noticed this I'm making it a point to practice doing the opposite: I practice scales both ascending and descending, making sure that in each direction I start half the time with one finger and half the time the other. My goal is for both to feel equally "natural," so I can do whichever works best in a given situation.

That's where I'm taking my practice too. Sometimes I have to slow down to a crawl because my fingers want to take over and habitually strike with the same finger twice and I can't even feel that I'm doing that. So, IMIMIM and MIMIMI over and over and over on the same licks. Sometimes it begins to feel natural and other times not. So I just have to continue.

One tip that I recently saw to help me become more aware is that if I have 3 notes on a string the next string will start on the other finger. Two notes or four notes then the next string starts with the same finger.

What I have to really work on is even-ness of dotted rhythms, starting with either finger, particularly on the same string.