Strings Breaking... At the tuning pegs

[sixstringsensei]

So, I always though bass strings were incredibly hard to break. I come from guitar. Recently, changing strings on various basses I would often break them if they had been installed even once. This was on Fender tuners BTW.

For example, there's a set of new strings on a bass. I remove them from the tuning peg, pulling the coil up slowly after loosening, just to make way to oil the fretboard. Upon reinstalling, the string snaps as I'm tuning up. It snaps at the kink point, on the sharp edge of the tuning peg slot.

Is there anything you guys do to avoid this problem? So any of you perhaps file that sharp edge a bit? I can imagine it's a good anchor point to prevent slippage, but I'm sure that with the string deep in the hole of the peg, and with 3 wraps, there should be plenty of grip to not need such a sharp edge.

 

[subdude67]

I never ever had a used set breaking when re-stringing it.
When you say often, how many times has this happened to you, always in the same bass, always the same tuner? Does the tuning post feel exceptionally rough or sharp?

 

[sixstringsensei]

Thanks for the feedback. Ok, let me clarify. I was changing strings on various basses, and broke 3 strings... but on the same bass (American Pro II J-Bass), but not on the same tuners. There were the original Fender strings that came with the bass. As the snapped, I reached and open a set of 45-105 Slinkies and replaced them... but I'm guessing that if were to repeat the procedure again to condition the fretboard at some point, these will snap too. This is new to me. I don't tend to snap guitar strings at the posts so imagine my surprised when I snapped 3 bass strings in one day.

 

[subdude67]

Thanks for the feedback. Ok, let me clarify. I was changing strings on various basses, and broke 3 strings... but on the same bass (American Pro II J-Bass), but not on the same tuners. There were the original Fender strings that came with the bass. As the snapped, I reached and open a set of 45-105 Slinkies and replaced them... but I'm guessing that if were to repeat the procedure again to condition the fretboard at some point, these will snap too. This is new to me. I don't tend to snap guitar strings at the posts so imagine my surprised when I snapped 3 bass strings in one day.

I have several sets of flatwound and tapewound strings that I swap regularly betweren basses without issues.

If your tuning pegs don't feel sharp or unusually rough, I assume the problem lies with the Fender strings, all you can do is see what happens to the Slinkies you strung the bass with. But it isn't normal for sure.

 

[Fernando Costa]

I try to avoid loosening and tightening strings more than once. I believe this causes the strings to die. But I've replaced used strings several times, for specific reasons, and I've never broken one. Something is wrong with your procedure. Or the strings are not the best, anyway, look into this, it's not common.

 

[swink]

 

[S.F.Sorrow]

I've actually posted about this before. It's the tapered shafts on the Fender Pro/Pro II tuning machines. They're horrible and can be added to the list of Fender's "innovations" the world really didn't need. Why can't Fender ever get it right when they try to "modernize" their classic designs? Other companies like Sandberg and Yamaha have managed to develop the P/J format into something truly great. When Fender try something new with their classic models it's usually rubbish. Don't get me wrong, I love a good Precision/Jazz and they're classics for a reason but these tuners are junk IMO.

The idea behind these tuners is of course that they will compensate for the one thing Leo Fender didn't get right: The poor break angle over the nut on the A-string. Other manufacturers have been using a retainer for the A-string for DECADES on P/J-style basses but for some reason Fender is unwilling to do this. Of course Fender use "stealth" retainers on their Ultra series but that's a lot of extra money to fix a design flaw!

The problem with these tuners is that the windings are forced to the bottom of the tuning shaft and can get stuck into each other when you bring the strings back up to full tension. This causes the strings to break at the tuner shaft. I've never had this happen when installing brand new strings but it happens unacceptably often when loosening the strings and bringing them back up to tension. I work at a guitar workshop and whenever someone brings in a Fender Pro/Pro II for a service I always pray they want new strings...

The only way to fix this is to install new tuners. If that's not an option, at least avoid loosening the tension unless you REALLY have to. With normal day-to-day use they seem to work fine. Also, when installing new strings it might be a good idea to leave as few windings as possible around the tuner shafts. It probably won't solve the problem but it might reduce the risk.

I might add that I've experience this problem far more often with silked strings, presumably because they are usually more knurled at the tapered ends of the strings and get stuck into each other more easily (Rotos are particularly prone to breakage with these tuners in my experience). But like you've seen, it can also happen with smoother, unsilked strings.

 

[sixstringsensei]

I have several sets of flatwound and tapewound strings that I swap regularly betweren basses without issues.

If your tuning pegs don't feel sharp or unusually rough, I assume the problem lies with the Fender strings, all you can do is see what happens to the Slinkies you strung the bass with. But it isn't normal for sure.

Thanks. The bass I was re-stringing had to go back due to a defect... went back with the Slinkies one. I have an identical one, with Fender strings (for now). I did remove the strings from the posts to oil the fretboard and put them back on and these didn't snap. So we'll see.

I try to avoid loosening and tightening strings more than once. I believe this causes the strings to die. But I've replaced used strings several times, for specific reasons, and I've never broken one. Something is wrong with your procedure. Or the strings are not the best, anyway, look into this, it's not common.

Thanks, I mean, the procedure is basically the same I use for guitar. 2 tuning peg lengths, cut, put in the hole all the way in, bend and starting winding to get about 3 wraps.

 

[sixstringsensei]

I've actually posted about this before. It's the tapered shafts on the Fender Pro/Pro II tuning machines. They're horrible and can be added to the list of Fender's "innovations" the world really didn't need. Why can't Fender ever get it right when they try to "modernize" their classic designs? Other companies like Sandberg and Yamaha have managed to develop the P/J format into something truly great. When Fender try something new with their classic models it's usually rubbish. Don't get me wrong, I love a good Precision/Jazz and they're classics for a reason but these tuners are junk IMO.

The idea behind these tuners is of course that they will compensate for the one thing Leo Fender didn't get right: The poor break angle over the nut on the A-string. Other manufacturers have been using a retainer for the A-string for DECADES on P/J-style basses but for some reason Fender is unwilling to do this. Of course Fender use "stealth" retainers on their Ultra series but that's a lot of extra money to fix a design flaw!

The problem with these tuners is that the windings are forced to the bottom of the tuning shaft and can get stuck into each other when you bring the strings back up to full tension. This causes the strings to break at the tuner shaft. I've never had this happen when installing brand new strings but it happens unacceptably often when loosening the strings and bringing them back up to tension. I work at a guitar workshop and whenever someone brings in a Fender Pro/Pro II for a service I always pray they want new strings...

The only way to fix this is to install new tuners. If that's not an option, at least avoid loosening the tension unless you REALLY have to. With normal day-to-day use they seem to work fine. Also, when installing new strings it might be a good idea to leave as few windings as possible around the tuner shafts. It probably won't solve the problem but it might reduce the risk.

I might add that I've experience this problem far more often with silked strings, presumably because they are usually more knurled at the tapered ends of the strings and get stuck into each other more easily (Rotos are particularly prone to breakage with these tuners in my experience). But like you've seen, it can also happen with smoother, unsilked strings.

Whoaa!! I wasn't expecting this. But THANKS because this makes a lot of sense. You got me thinking. I have to go look at these turners and compare them to those on my Warwick and see if I can find MIM tuner to compare to. I'll admit, I always thought bass strings lasted forever (dead, but forever)... and having 3 strings snap in one day was surprising.

Mind you, I'm a drummer, turned guitarist and also play bass. But my bass gear experience in limited to looking at my bandmates, my wife who plays bass, and now me for the last 2-3 years hands-on. I've never seen a bass string snap until it happened to me.

One thing to point out that did forget. This happened a few weeks ago, so my memory is a little fuzzy. I remember now I actually had to pull these strings out completely. Means, I did straighten them to pull them through the body. I put flatwounds on it for a bit. I found a defect on the bass and decided it had to be exchanged.

That's when I took the original strings and put them through the body again, and restrung... and 3 snapped.. so the bass ended up going up to the shop with brand new Slinkies instead. Now, the replacement bass, I only took the strings off a the pegs to oil the board, but I never straightened them. I can imagine they could have still snapped, but I'm pretty sure they didn't because these didn't get straightened.

 

[sixstringsensei]

I know how to change strings dude. This isn't my first time.

 

[sixstringsensei]

@subdude67 @Fernando Costa - Hi, please do check out my reply to @S.F.Sorrow above (#9). There is one variable I had forgotten about. I mention it there. Thanks.

 

[JRA]

Is there anything you guys do to avoid this problem?

i don't cut my strings, not for that reason, but i'd imagine that winding the whole end would help to eliminate/reduce your problem, even with the tuning machines that you currently have.

 

[Snakeman1066]

this is the worst possible way to change strings...they really advocate this!?

 

[mcnach]

this is the worst possible way to change strings...they really advocate this!?

How do you do it?

 

[No Compute]

I did straighten them to pull them through the body.

Not a great idea. This is part of the appeal of a bridge with the ‘quick release’ feature at the ball ends.

This is far more likely the root cause of failure than the shape of your tuners. Not familiar with the Fender design, but tapered (or radiused, even) tuners are not uncommon, and this is not a widespread concern. But metal fatigue is a very real thing. The initial installation stresses the string close to the point of ‘plastic’ deformation. The second installation (after straightening) is simply rolling loaded dice

 

[jeff62]

Good info above on the design flaw of the tuner. I would otherwise suggest to avoid it by not conditioning your fretboard… it doesn’t need it. You will save time and expense.

 

[Zooberwerx]

How do you do it?

I see a few things that raised an eyebrow but, overall, it smacks of my process...but not quite:

*Cutting strings for removal?!? A near-dead string will work in a pinch.

*I like to do a 90 degree kink after measuring and before clipping to length.

*Best to let the ball end spin freely while tuning-up.

Riis

 

[sixstringsensei]

Good info above on the design flaw of the tuner. I would otherwise suggest to avoid it by not conditioning your fretboard… it doesn’t need it. You will save time and expense.

I normally only do this like once a year. But the bass was new... and dry as heck.

 

[bdplaid]

I always thought bass strings lasted forever (dead, but forever)... and having 3 strings snap in one day was surprising.

No, they don't last forever. Once, I broke two while playing. Same song. But they do last a long time.

Only time I have broken strings while restringing was with new DR strings, at the post. It was one of those deals where the string was wrapped too long, the speaking windings wrapped into the B string post, and snap. Happened twice with two of the same brand and model string, but never with any other brand or model. DR replaced them.

As for your situation, how long were the strings on? Sounds like they were worn out. And if they're going to wear out, it'll be at either the post or the bridge saddle, where the string makes its sharpest turn. Metal fatigue.

Otherwise, I'd smooth down the tuner slot where the string broke. Just a little can fix it.

 

[sixstringsensei]

Not a great idea. This is part of the appeal of a bridge with the ‘quick release’ feature at the ball ends.

This is far more likely the root cause of failure than the shape of your tuners. Not familiar with the Fender design, but tapered (or radiused, even) tuners are not uncommon, and this is not a widespread concern. But metal fatigue is a very real thing. The initial installation stresses the string close to the point of ‘plastic’ deformation. The second installation (after straightening) is simply rolling loaded dice

Yep. That was my initial thoughts. I straightened them and that creates metal fatigue. That said, it would still be tricky to pull them out all coiled up even if it's just through the bridge. Granted, easier than through the entire body... but I can't imagine pulling them through the bridge all coiled up anyway.

From what I've heard, bass players reuse strings all the time... so I thought I could.