Sub Placement

ChrisQuinn91

ChrisQuinn91

May 17, 2018
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Liverpool, United Kingdom
#1
Hello,

I'm looking at upgrading my PA setup in a few months time and was looking for some advice regarding Sub Placement.

I’m not sure whether I want to go for 1 Sub or 2 but that’s not the main concern.

I’ve read that it’s best to have your Subs centre stage, especially if you have a pair.

The main issue I have with this is that we rarely play on a stage elevated off the floor.

We gig in bars the majority of the time. If I was to put a sub centre stage, it would be a bit of a trip hazard.

Is it a good idea to place your wedges on the sub? It would bring it closer to the performers but I imagine there would be some sound issues.

What are your thoughts on this? Or should I just go with the 1 Sub per side setup?

We are a 4 Piece Cover band playing Classic Rock and Indie if that helps. 2 Guitar, Bass, Drums

<EDIT> I'm looking at the DB Technologes SUB 612 so it's a relatively flat sub when placed on its side. I wouldn't stack monitors on an 18 inch sub in the centre.

Thanks
Chris
 
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#3
Center of the stage is not necessary, but center of the room can help.

I've stacked a wedge on top of a sub many times. It's closer to the performer, but all you have to do us turn it down a little.

What you want to avoid if you can is spacing subs apart. This can create a power alley down a line half-way between them, & comb filtering in other places.
 
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#4
ChrisQuinn91 said:
Hello,

I'm looking at upgrading my PA setup in a few months time and was looking for some advice regarding Sub Placement.

I’m not sure whether I want to go for 1 Sub or 2 but that’s not the main concern.

I’ve read that it’s best to have your Subs centre stage, especially if you have a pair.

The main issue I have with this is that we rarely play on a stage elevated off the floor.

We gig in bars the majority of the time. If I was to put a sub centre stage, it would be a bit of a trip hazard.

Is it a good idea to place your wedges on the sub? It would bring it closer to the performers but I imagine there would be some sound issues.

What are your thoughts on this? Or should I just go with the 1 Sub per side setup?

We are a 4 Piece Cover band playing Classic Rock and Indie if that helps. 2 Guitar, Bass, Drums

<EDIT> I'm looking at the DB Technologes SUB 612 so it's a relatively flat sub when placed on its side. I wouldn't stack monitors on an 18 inch sub in the centre.

Thanks
Chris
Click to expand...
Live sound is typically about trying to choose from a range of compromises....there is no perfect solution.

Center packing the subs is meant to prevent separating the subs which causes comb filtering/uneven response. It's not a perfect solution because the subs and mains are physically separated so you get comb filtering between the subs and mains...the comb filtering is minimized by the crossover, but the physical displacement between the subs and mains still degrades the frequency and impulse response of the system. Often you can get away with putting the sub on one side or the other without any major problems; especially in a small or narrow spaces.

Another problem with center packed subs...Since low frequencies are omni-directional, center-packed subs can cause excessive build up of low frequencies on the band stand. There are some cardioid subs that can mitigate this to some degree. KS212C Make sure you understand what happens to the polar response when you combine multiple KS212Cs.

If the primary listening area is in the center of the room, I sometimes add bit of delay to center packed subs so they integrate better with L/R mains.

Assume Black is Left, Blue is the Sub, Red is Right. The half circles represent how far the sound travels in a period of time. The wavefronts are perfectly in time only where the circles overlap. The point is a bit of delay can be used to help the subs and mains integrate better at a particular point in the room. Unfortunately when you optimize one location, it degrades the time alignment everywhere else, so evaluate your situation and choose where the best sound occurs.
upload_2019-1-18_14-23-14.png



See attached Bass Array Guide for additional useful info.
 

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#5
We never put the subs center stage.

pa placement.jpg


This setup is typical, one sub on either side of the stage, with the mains on top. This stage is in the corner of the bar, and as you can see, it's not very high. I use a wireless for my bass, and will always walk around the room to see if there are any nodes or weird low frequency issues. None so far.
 
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#7
As with all things, there a many "choices" here.
The "power alley" (centered subs) config often seen at Festival size events can make the most of limited resources where the promoters often "under spec" [and under pay for] the PA needs. Gives you the "best" sounding bass.

In the average club/bar, I've done many gigs with one, and many with more subs.. and to be honest, it really doesn't make that much difference (if any) where they are placed - L/R or centered - in that kind of space.

Yes, stuck monitors on top of subs in clubs/bars both L/R and centered many times - due to space constraints. Use what you need to get the best for the punters and the band.
YMMV
 
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#9
theoretically it is indeed better to have the subs together, even if they're over on one side of the stage.

practically, in bars and such, a clear visual presentation is probably more important, and besides, the reflections and "room gain" mean that the sub energy is bouncing around so much that you don't hear obvious "power alley" gaps anyway.
 
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#10
Subs?

Offshore, just off the lip of the continental shelf, preferably at the thermocline to defeat sonar. You’re near enough for strikes and radar surveillance, but there’s depth under the keel in case you need to bug out.

That’s where I’d place mine.
 
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#11
subs?

best placed on the table, with oil and vinegar on them.

depending on the bread i like them toasted too.
 
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#14
musicman7722 said:
Tough crowd today. I use Turbosound IP2000's for my FOH and they have built in 12" subs. However I usually bring a pair of powered 12: EV subs which I feed from an Aux out. So that said whenever I can I place them center of stage.
Click to expand...

They look pretty interesting. I've read a few of your reports on them. You've had them working nicely in a rock band context haven't you?
 
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