SVT4 pro bi-amping an 8x10

[Lenny JG]

Hey all, I've finally came around to making an account here, and this is my first post!

I've done a lot of searching but can't seem to find an answer to this question:

Can I use the bi-amping feature of mu SVT4 pro to run both seperate 4x10s inside an ampeg 8x10 in order to use the crossover function on the SVT4pro?

I am currently using the setup monobridged but have been curious about using the crossover on two cabs, I feel that since the 8x10 is actuallt 2 4x10 cabs in a single enclosure this might be kind of practical.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[JimmyM]

Hey all, I've finally came around to making an account here, and this is my first post!

I've done a lot of searching but can't seem to find an answer to this question:

Can I use the bi-amping feature of mu SVT4 pro to run both seperate 4x10s inside an ampeg 8x10 in order to use the crossover function on the SVT4pro?

I am currently using the setup monobridged but have been curious about using the crossover on two cabs, I feel that since the 8x10 is actuallt 2 4x10 cabs in a single enclosure this might be kind of practical.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Personally, I think the crossover thing is useless unless you're doing a sub and a PA top. I see no reason to split the two halves of an identical cabinet that way. Maybe you could make a case for having two completely separate amps powering each half, but not so much for an amp with a single preamp and two power amps. On the other hand, yes, you COULD do it.

 

[Wasnex]

Hey all, I've finally came around to making an account here, and this is my first post!

I've done a lot of searching but can't seem to find an answer to this question:

Can I use the bi-amping feature of mu SVT4 pro to run both seperate 4x10s inside an ampeg 8x10 in order to use the crossover function on the SVT4pro?

I am currently using the setup monobridged but have been curious about using the crossover on two cabs, I feel that since the 8x10 is actuallt 2 4x10 cabs in a single enclosure this might be kind of practical.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

IMHO, you could and should do it just for the fun of it. But I believe you will find there is no practical benefit as @JimmyM has said.

Here is the amp data you need to consider:
- Mono-Bridged: 1600 watts rms @ 4 ohms(1200 watts continuous), 3% THD
- Biamp: 2 x 350 watts rms @ 8 ohms (300 watts continuous), 3% THD

You should also consider that eight speakers are a lot more efficient than four, due to mutual coupling. If you biamp, four of the speakers will cover the low frequencies, and four of the speakers will cover the high frequencies. Since they are not covering the same freqeuncy range, you do not get the benefit of mutual coupling. Some related ideas: If you double the speakers, but hold the total output power constant, you get +3dB. If you double the speakers and hold the voltage constant, the total power doubles and you get +6dB.

Let's put all of these ideas together: By bridging the amp you more than quadruple the output power feeding the low end and also gain the increased efficiency from doubling the speakers. In other words, the rig will be able to play a lot louder if you run it it bridge mode.

You may find that you actually like the sound of the rig biamped, but I suspect you will miss the headroom and punch of the full 810. If you have another bass cab, like a 210 with a tweeter, I would suggest experimenting biamping with the full 810 as the woofer and the 210 as the mid/hi cab.

If you run the full 810, the impedance is 4 ohms, so the output power goes up a bit:
2 x 625 watts rms @ 4 ohms (490 watts continuous), 3% THD

If your other cab is 8 ohms, it would be fine to run one output at 4 ohms and the other 8 ohms.

Injoy ! & welcome.

 

[Lenny JG]

These answers are just what i needed, thanks y'all!

Now I'm only thinking that the thing to do if i even wanna make this experiment worth my time is to try and throw pedals into seperate loops i.e. distortion on highs, compression on lows etc.

 

[Wasnex]

These answers are just what i needed, thanks y'all!

Now I'm only thinking that the thing to do if i even wanna make this experiment worth my time is to try and throw pedals into seperate loops i.e. distortion on highs, compression on lows etc.

That could be fun with dual mono as well.

 

[Lenny JG]

That could be fun with dual mono as well.

What is the difference if i may ask you to elaborate?

 

[Rick James]

You bi-amp when you have dedicated low frequency and mid or high frequency drivers. You don't, they're all the same.

 

[JimmyM]

These answers are just what i needed, thanks y'all!

Now I'm only thinking that the thing to do if i even wanna make this experiment worth my time is to try and throw pedals into seperate loops i.e. distortion on highs, compression on lows etc.

Now THAT may end up cool.

 

[Wasnex]

What is the difference if i may ask you to elaborate?

If you poke around you will find plenty of post on using dual/parallel processing with distortion. The signal is split into two channels and you apply distortion to one channel and leave the other channel clean. Mix the channels to taste. The idea here is heavy distortion tends to wash out the low end, so mixing in the clean channel will restore the fat and focus. It can be useful to compress the clean side so it integrates with the distortion, since a side effect of distortion is compression. Another idea is to apply heavy distortion to one channel, and light OD and possibly some compression to the other.

With a dual mono rig you can produce similar results, except you are blending your clean and distorted signals acoustically instead of electronically.

Some call this biamping, but I prefer the term multi-amping. IMHO biamping involves using frequency dividing networks (crossovers), so each speaker covers a certain limited part of the frequency spectrum, instead of both speakers running a full range signal.

Lot's of possibilities, try a stereo Chorus or Flanger.

 

[lokikallas]

The 90s called, they want their bi-amping back!
Can’t imagine it would sound better than full range.
Are you going to use two mics and have the sound guy figure out how to blend them?

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

Great aswers given here, y'all. I'll add a personal aside: since less power is needed to reproduce the high frequency content when bi-amping, the idea of using two amps of equal power has always irked me.

Also, OP, what you REALLY need for your dual mono set-up is another 810

 

[Keger Jupit]

These answers are just what i needed, thanks y'all!

Now I'm only thinking that the thing to do if i even wanna make this experiment worth my time is to try and throw pedals into seperate loops i.e. distortion on highs, compression on lows etc.

If you want to get a really good idea ^^^ of what this can sound like, grab a good set of headphones & give this a good crank! dUg (Pinnick, King's X) wasn't the first guy to try this, but...GOOD...GOD!! Live, his tone will melt your face!! He used to run a SVT/Marshall setup for lows/highs, respectively.

 

[Bander]

Sure, but to get the most out of it, you might want to load the top with drivers that do higher frequency well, load the bottom with low frequency woofers and run both groups as channels with your biamp.

 

[Lenny JG]

You bi-amp when you have dedicated low frequency and mid or high frequency drivers. You don't, they're all the same.

Aha now that's a good point

If you poke around you will find plenty of post on using dual/parallel processing with distortion. The signal is split into two channels and you apply distortion to one channel and leave the other channel clean. Mix the channels to taste. The idea here is heavy distortion tends to wash out the low end, so mixing in the clean channel will restore the fat and focus. It can be useful to compress the clean side so it integrates with the distortion, since a side effect of distortion is compression. Another idea is to apply heavy distortion to one channel, and light OD and possibly some compression to the other.

With a dual mono rig you can produce similar results, except you are blending your clean and distorted signals acoustically instead of electronically.

Some call this biamping, but I prefer the term multi-amping. IMHO biamping involves using frequency dividing networks (crossovers), so each speaker covers a certain limited part of the frequency spectrum, instead of both speakers running a full range signal.

Lot's of possibilities, try a stereo Chorus or Flanger.

Yes exactly why i want to do this is mainly to distort highs and compress lows, the other reason is just pure curiosity lol

 

[Lenny JG]

No im not because i go DI or i dont get micd, using an svt4pro and 8x10 micing isn't a necessity ime lol. Fun comment though

The 90s called, they want their bi-amping back!
Can’t imagine it would sound better than full range.
Are you going to use two mics and have the sound guy figure out how to blend them?

 

[GreyBeard]

Bi-amping is intended to have the drivers operate in their optimum range by only sending them a fairly narrow frequency. For instance, if you had a 1x15 cab with a driver optimized for low frequencies then you would only send it frequencies from say 100 hz to 30 hz. Then you would need another cab like a 2x10 or 2x8 or 2x6 to send frequencies from 100hz on up. You would need a stereo amp like the ampeg and a crossover which the ampeg has built in. You would set the xover to 100 and send the low out to 1x15 and the high out to the 2x10. You would choose the xover point depending on the high side cabinet. That way both cabinets are operating in their optimum range. You would need to balance the volume of each speaker but that can be done pretty easily by ear. Now, you have a 8x10 cab that can be used stereo. Sending the low side to 4x10's and the high side to 4x10's won't really accomplish much.

 

[Lenny JG]

Bi-amping is intended to have the drivers operate in their optimum range by only sending them a fairly narrow frequency. For instance, if you had a 1x15 cab with a driver optimized for low frequencies then you would only send it frequencies from say 100 hz to 30 hz. Then you would need another cab like a 2x10 or 2x8 or 2x6 to send frequencies from 100hz on up. You would need a stereo amp like the ampeg and a crossover which the ampeg has built in. You would set the xover to 100 and send the low out to 1x15 and the high out to the 2x10. You would choose the xover point depending on the high side cabinet. That way both cabinets are operating in their optimum range. You would need to balance the volume of each speaker but that can be done pretty easily by ear. Now, you have a 8x10 cab that can be used stereo. Sending the low side to 4x10's and the high side to 4x10's won't really accomplish much.

Fair; maybe for what I'm wanting to accomplish, I might be better with just using a frequency splitter so I don't have to worry about the xover

 

[Wasnex]

Fair; maybe for what I'm wanting to accomplish, I might be better with just using a frequency splitter so I don't have to worry about the xover

What the difference between a frequency splitter and a crossover?

 

[Lenny JG]

What the difference between a frequency splitter and a crossover?

It's basically in your signal chain and allows you to adjust lo and hi pass as two seperate signals before sending to your amp. With something like Tyler the freq. splitter it even.allows you to use a seperate effects loop for ea. of those two signals seperately.

 

[Wasnex]

It's basically in your signal chain and allows you to adjust lo and hi pass as two seperate signals before sending to your amp. With something like Tyler the freq. splitter it even.allows you to use a seperate effects loop for ea. of those two signals seperately.

Basically you split the signal into two frequency bands, process the two frequency bands with effects, and then combine the two frequency bands back into one channel before sending it to your amp.