Double Bass Tail adjusters (gut) break

[Tmjohnson62]

Seventies Engelhardt Chinese 3/4 acoustic bass. Standard (plastic) tail adjusters keep breaking. I don't understand why?

Seems Kevlar tied off might be next try? I'm thinking $30 for a titanium wire adjuster and an end will rip off just like plastic style.

Thanks ... help, criticism, shunning all OK
Matthew @ String Theory Violins .com

 

[Don Hergert]

Matthew, I'm sure you've seen more of these than I could imagine...

But assuming everything else is setup correctly (smooth tailpiece holes, saddle and endpin plug surfaces, no sharp angles), I know of some ~.150" diameter Kevlar core wacker E or A strings that would do the trick with a fisherman's knot. Or the infamous coat hanger wire or braided cable with a hardware-store clamp.

But if this has happened more than once, it seems something else is wrong. Could the adjusters be a bad plastic batch?

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Seventies Engelhardt Chinese 3/4 acoustic bass. Standard (plastic) tail adjusters keep breaking. I don't understand why?

Seems Kevlar tied off might be next try? I'm thinking $30 for a titanium wire adjuster and an end will rip off just like plastic style.

Thanks ... help, criticism, shunning all OK
Matthew @ String Theory Violins .com

Hi! If you're using a tailpiece cable made of nylon/synthetic, and using it with a typical Engelhardt tailpiece, that's why it's breaking - the OEM Tailpieces on Engelhardt Basses (which are made in the USA, not China) are drilled straight through the front, rather than having vertical holes for the tailgut. The tailgut, therefore, has to make a sharp right-angle turn, and it can't handle that. They will break every time. Use a nylon or kevlar cord, or a stranded steel tailgut instead.

If you don't have a tailpiece with perpendicular holes, you might have a run of bad nylon tailguts. Been there - had to throw away a whole batch once, and it's why I don't carry them anymore.

 

[Tmjohnson62]

Matthew, I'm sure you've seen more of these than I could imagine...

But assuming everything else is setup correctly (smooth tailpiece holes, saddle and endpin plug surfaces, no sharp angles), I know of some ~.150" diameter Kevlar core wacker E or A strings that would do the trick with a fisherman's knot. Or the infamous coat hanger wire or braided cable with a hardware-store clamp.

But if this has happened more than once, it seems something else is wrong. Could the adjusters be a bad plastic batch?

Thank you much! Happened with two batches. Only similarity seems, both guts broke at the point where threads went to solid core. In both cases, the break point was above the saddle and below the tail holes & tail wood.

The strings appear as 'older' Helicore Orchestral. The projection on bridge is modest at 139mm. The only thing with set that I 'considered' is the saddle is rather low. With the projection # seems increasing saddle height to reduce pressure over the bridge would not matter. When in tune with new bridge and 8 7 6 5 string heights the ring out was extended, tone deep warm with no hint of high pressure on board constricting voice. Plan is to try a Wittner 17" wire gut.

Any thoughts in addition to your complete response much appreciated.
Matthew @ String Theory Violins

 

[Don Hergert]

As Mark mentioned, are you using the standard OEM Engelhardt tailpiece with the vertical / perpendicular holes for the tailgut? IF so, that's probably the answer, it sounds like the nylon tailguts always break there. In that case, your idea about the Wittner tailgut will probably be the answer.

Otherwise, if the holes are more the standard config, parallel to the length of the tailpiece, it sounds like you've gotten into a bad batch of nylon tailguts. That said, it might still be the safest bet to go with the Wittner tailgut anyway.

Mark is like you in that he probably sees hundreds of tailguts a year. I'm just a good reader (often of Mark's online DB-opedia ) and a logical thinker who plays a double bass and I tend to tinker.

Best of luck with this!

-- Don