Double Bass Tailpiece length?

[T_Bone_TL]

So I've been contemplating spending money on having my luthier do a few things, but I don't want to spend a ton of money on a lot of things, which would be all too easy. We are starting from a Lidl 50/1 which is a basic ply bass from Luby in the Czech Republic that's most likely really a Strunal with a different brand name, and the 50/1 is the low end model as I understand it.

One thing I think would be an upgrade is to replace the coathanger wire (oh, pardon, "glorified" coathanger wire as it appears to be bright-plated, but not well as there's some rust now) tailgut with a flexible one. Specifically Vectran braid nominal 1/8" with a 2700lb rating. So this makes me look at the tailpiece, and note it has very unfriendly tailgut holes which make a hard 90 onto the top of the tailpiece - fine for coathanger wire, not great for any other option. Which makes me think I'm probably going to want to make a tailpiece, which I consider as likely within my wooddorker skills if we don't assume that one must be blessed as a luthier to make a hunk of wood for a bass.

Seems to be a perfectly normal length for bass tailpieces when I look at what Gollihur has on offer, at 13-1/4" (336mm) on the one hand, but also seems like a somewhat ridiculous amount of length on the other hand, with only an inch (25mm) before it would be touching the tailgut saddle. So I wonder if a new one could be shorter, or if there's some supposed or actual juju to it being that long. The other reason that I'd like it a bit shorter has to do with what appears to be a poorly fitted bridge with an excessively narrow top edge that has damaged the windings at the bridge, which is the other thing I'd like to get done; but I'd rather not do bridge and strings if I can move the witness points on the strings (which play fine and are Pirastro Flexocores old enough that I assume them to be "original" in the current nomenclature, thus ungodly expensive for "not guts" IMHO) to undamaged windings and get the abused part into the afterlengths. Looks like the G & D might be OK, so merely going to a compensated tailpiece (which I'm inclined to do, already having rearranged my tuner windings for long E and short G) might do that at the "standard" length by shifting the E & A back.

If your response will be of the too common nature of "well, just buy a much more expensive bass" and/or "a whole bunch of expensive parts" please simply move on and refrain from posting that response, thanks.

 

[Steven Ayres]

With a flexible tailgut you can use it to adjust the string afterlength (between bridge and tailpiece), and there is a more or less ideal measurement for that at 1/6 the scale length, iirc. Many, many basses are working just fine with flexible tailgut using the wire holes you have, and where that would be problematic with traditional gut, with modern Kevlar or wire rope it's no problem (I do rounded runways in the tailpiece so the gut doesn't fold 90 degrees, but that's just me). So I'd say keep the tailpiece, switch to Kevlar, and experiment with how your bass responds to afterlength adjustment.

After that you can think about the endpin. With a more responsive tailpiece, different endpin materials can have greater effect as well.

 

[Max Bogosity]

I have no opinion on the magic of tailpiece lengths, but making a tailpiece-shaped object is certainly within your skills. Here's the one I made for my EUB project a couple of years ago.

 

[stefaniw80401]

If your response will be of the too common nature of "well, just buy a much more expensive bass" and/or "a whole bunch of expensive parts" please simply move on and refrain from posting that response, thanks.

Yes, we see that type of response occasionally, but I would not say that it is as common here as you think.

A couple of things in your OP caught my attention:

1. Without proper consideration to the length of the current TP, you say you think you might need a shorter tailpiece,. A shorter TP will dramatically increase the afterlengths which could be bad/worse for your instrument. If you pluck the afterlengths, they should sound a 5th (1/6 scale) above the corresponding open string pitch. Most basses land between a 4th and 5th. If yours sound flatter than a 4th, then you don't need a shorter TP -- but rather you need a longer TP, or longer tailgate wire (i.e. shorten your afterlengths). But if your afterlengths are sharper than a 5th, then, yes, you'll need a shorter TP (because your existing wire is already short) which will lengthen your afterlengths.
2. You want to replace your coat hanger with a braided cord. On a bass like yours it may not have much tonal or response impact, other than providing you easier length adjustment. You can get similar/better adjustment capability with aircraft cable and screw clamp such as this one (https://www.stringemporium.com/adjustable-bass-tailpiece-wire.htm ). But be aware that the more you activate the TP, the more trouble you can have with wolf notes. The coat hanger tail wire has its advantages.
3. The other issue you said was a thin top on your bridge causing string winding separation. The bridge top should be about 5mm, and the string groove radius be as broad as possible, no deeper than half the strings' gauge, and generously lubed with soft pencil graphite (same for the top nut). If your string action is a little high currently, then you can trim the top of the bridge, which will in effect create a wider bearing surface for your strings.

So, as it may turn out, you may NOT need to buy anything but to take your bass in to your luthier for a proper inspection, evaluation and setup. And this aforementioned advice *is* indeed the more common response you're likely to see on this forum to posts like yours.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
Mark

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

A few things.

All tailgut material is not created equal. My second bass was a Strunal, which could never be accused of being overly bright. Kevlar tailguts are endlessly adjustable, but they stretch (more on that in a minute) and they eat high-end frequencies like groceries. The one I tried came off almost immediately. Use braided steel.

You want the afterlengths to be 1/7 of the speaking length of string. Anything else and the harmonics won’t be where you expect. Compensated tailpieces are a ridiculous upsell. It’s not like the thing has frets.

As long as the afterlengths are correct, it really doesn’t matter if the tailpiece is oversized as long as it doesn’t touch the saddle.

That tailpiece is probably dyed boxwood,which is perfectly adequate for a plywood student bass. Basses set up for legit sometimes benefit from a heavier tailpiece, but for pizz playing lighter counteracts entropy.

 

[Dr. Love]

Swapping the tailpiece cord is a pretty simple, inexpensive, and possibly more importantly reversible experiment that you can definitely do yourself. That being said: just be cautious doing it because it will involve loosening all the strings at the same time which releases quite a bit of tension on the top and there's a good chance the sound post could fall. If that happens, it's no longer a simple project. I would also take the time to smooth/de-burr the edges of the tailpiece holes so you don't have any real sharp edge that could fray the cord over time because a snapped tailpiece wire is not fun.