The modes are dangerous black magic!

[John Metta]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

I love those moments!!

 

[bassboysam]

the odds of it actually being locrian are quite slim...what was the song?

 

[John Metta]

what was the song

I'll have to ask her. It was some hymn for church that I haven't heard before. At some point she was singing in some other language (Swahili? I may be wrong). I was actually a bit stunned at that too, but she said she used to sing that one in (catholic) school sometimes. I said "Damn, I thought you were just READING that!"

 

[John Metta]

the odds of it actually being locrian are quite slim

I believe that. Course I'm new here. What has stunned me is that there really aren't any modes, there's just one big mode that keeps repeating and you start at different places. (I know that's a simplification, but I mean in that W-W, W-W, W-W, 12-4, 12-4, 1-34, 1-34 just keeps repeating). Realistically, it could have been something else and I just don't know enough and was only playing part but I knew I could play W-W, 12-4, 12-4, 1-34 and was in the pocket, then I went up the neck and played that pattern a string down and added W-W on the E string and was STILL in the pocket.

It was sweet.

 

[John Metta]

the odds of it actually being locrian are quite slim

Oops, you're right! It was Lydian! I just reviewed that Anthony Wellington video and the first L in MILLPAD is Lydian, not Locrian. That's what it was.

I know, I have A LOT to learn.

 

[Spectrum]

Trying to figure out what MILLPAD stands for. Nobody really taught me much about modes other than the very basics, so I made up my own acronym for the scales.

I Don't Picture Laughing My Ass Lucky

Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian

I know the sentence doesn't make any sense but it's easy to remember and like I said, I had to make it up myself.

I know the modes and associated scales, but I've never fully grokked how they fit into the scheme of things. I know the Dorian scale is useful for playing over the ii chord, for example, but I don't know the deeper implications of modes. I also never really understood what "modal music" is. I know Miles Davis Kind of Blue album is called "modal" but not what makes playing over those chords any different than any other jazz song's chords.

I think I need to go find a teacher again someday. Never too old to learn something new.

 

[John Metta]

Trying to figure out what MILLPAD stands for.

I got that from Anthony Wellington's video. He went into the pattern of the modes on the bass and it really clicked for me. He showed how all modes are part of the repeating pattern going from the lowest register string to the highest (he demonstrated on a 7 string bass).

W - W : Mixolydian (W is "whole step.")
W - W : Ionian
W - W : Lydian
12-4 : Locrian (Numbers are frets, referenced from one fret higher than last W-W start)
12-4 : Phrygian
1-34 : Aolian
1-34 : Dorian

If you have two W-W patterns and jump to 12-4, you can really only go to 12-4, and then 1-34. If you start there, that's Ionian. So MILLPAD is his way of remembering that pattern. It's not ordered the same way because he's going by frets and strings, so each is, like our strings, a fifth. But it made more sense to me that way. The I-D-P-Ly.. ordering didn't have that same logical pattern in relation to the bass.

I still need to remember what number each is, but it's stepping stones, and I know Ionian is 1, so the rest falls out of there in fifths.

 

[Groove Master]

I believe that you don't know what to do with it or you don't understand when you can use them. It is the most useful tool a bass player can have in his/her tool box imo.

 

[Malcolm35]

Modes are moods of a scale. Want a specific mood, grab the mode that gives that mood.

Most of this deals with the chords used, modal harmony does not resolve, there is no I-V cadence in modal. Modal is usually a two chord vamp of the tonic and then a chord that has the signature note of the mode you want. Lydian's signature note is the #4 so your second vamp chord should contain a #4 note in it's make up.

There is modal and tonal. 97.5% of what we do is tonal, the good ole I-IV-V chugging under a tonal melodic solo...

Unless you, are one of your solo instruments, is using modes for their improv, forget about modes, there is plenty of tonal stuff to keep you playing...Trying to play modal over a I-IV-V progression does nothing to call attention to the modal sound. To hear the modal sound you need a modal vamp to play your mode over.

Modes of the major scale
using the parallel method.
​

Ionian R-2-3-4-5-6-7 same as the major scale.
Lydian R-2-3-#4-5-6-7 Change one note.
Mixolydian R-2-3-4-5-6-b7 Change one note.

Aeolian R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 same as the natural minor scale.
Dorian R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7 Change one note.
Phrygian R-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Change one note.
Locrian R-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7 Change two notes.

Hit the big E string and let it ring. Play E Lydian then E Dorian over the droning E string. Hear the difference.

I think what you were hearing was Mixolydian over a dominant seven chord progression -- and or modal vamp. Most of the time this gives a Latin sound.

Do a Google on modal harmony.

 

[mambo4]

It is the most useful tool a bass player can have in his/her tool box imo.

I would dispute that. Understanding harmony is a order of magnitude more useful (IMHO)

Of course a deep, thorough understanding of harmony and its implications and variations will map quite closely onto a deep, thorough understanding of modes and its implications and variations. Ultimately it's descriptions of notes that "go together". I just find the harmony path straight, effecient and direct, while modes are meandering paths that get beginners lost and confused.

 

[bbh]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

You’re on the way my friend. Don’t let the theory bog down your musicality as I’ve seen too often. Theory just explains what you did and could do.

 

[40Hz]

I believe that you don't know what to do with it or you don't understand when you can use them. It is the most useful tool a bass player can have in his/her tool box imo.

I think it’s more useful for jazz and similar styles that favor a lot of improvisation. Not necessarily as applicable to other forms of music where classic music theory and harmony illuminates what’s going on in a given piece of music much better.

Ideally, you’ll get handle on both since each has its uses and excels in different areas. But I would not say understanding modes is absolutely the most useful tool a bassist can have in their skillset.

Just my own 2¢ anyway.

 

[JoshS]

I don’t play like Mr. Alex Lifeson.

 

[2strings2frets]

I had a music teacher who began teaching me the C and G scale on bass. Then gave me assignments learning what I now recognize as modes. After cubic hours of thumping out seven notes over and over I finally broke off our relationship. I never found any connection with what we were doing and base lines in real life music. After a year of theory I still did not know any songs. It was like working in a laboratory and then confronting how things are actually done outside. I have Bunny Brenell’s book on bass modes for a revisit after years of playing maybe it will make more sense.

 

[nnnnnn]

If you have two W-W patterns and jump to 12-4, you can really only go to 12-4, and then 1-34.

I don't understand. What do you mean by 12-4 and 1-34?

 

[Febs]

I don't understand. What do you mean by 12-4 and 1-34?

I think he's talking about left hand fingerings: first/second/fourth and first/third/fourth, respectively.

 

[matthewbrown]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

When you start working on the modes of the harmonic and melodic minor scales, that's when the fairy dust really starts to hit the fan.

 

[Ewo]

My .02:

Tonality is a collection of notes. The modes are linear ways of stating those notes. The various names of the modes refer to where you start in a linear statement.

RL playing usually involves alterations in that collection of notes, over the course of a tune; gives it harmonic color and motion in the chord progression. But the key center specifies the collection of notes the tune is built on.

 

[mambo4]

I never found any connection with what we were doing and base lines in real life music.

Modes can be found everywhere, but as often by accident as by design. Play the root note, add chord tones, throw in passing tone, and presto, a mode appears. Did the player consciously use a mode? Maybe, maybe not.

As Malcom says, each mode has a characteristic sound or mood. To truly use them you have practice each mode until you internalize that sound. You have to be able to hear melody in your head and say "that spounds Dorian," and so forth. Then you deploy that mode because that's the sound you want.

Modes are fun to play with and interesting to analyze in compositions and bass lines. But when someone hand me a chord chart, I'm thinking roots, chord tones, and passing tones - not modes.