The right way of alternate plucking

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barzi2001

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Oct 29, 2015
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#1
Hi all!

I am a newbie both the in the bass world and in this forum, thought I come from guitar (I still play/study guitar though) :)

Since I am a beginner, I want to start to learn in the correct way, thus avoiding to learn something wrong "at the beginning" that will take years to be removed "later on" ( I guess you understand what I mean).
I have a discrete knowledge of music theory, so my initial focus with the bass is all about "mechanics".
For instance, I am making some exercises for developing a good alternate plucking technique.

However, although for alternate plucking I read quite often "alternate all the time, no excuse!" I am not sure how should I consider group of notes, e.g. like this

8th 16th 16th - 8th 16th 16th - / - /

The way I am studying, it to pluck that sequence of notes with i i m, i i m, so that I always end up with my index finger on the beat. I think that this would create a "natural reference on the beat" that may help to gain more groooove. Also the 8th can be intended as a group 2x16th but where you pluck only the first one with the i (it is like that the second 16th is plucked with the m, but it hits "the air"). That fact may also help to keep the groove.
Do you think is that a good approach? Or should I do i m i m i m ... anyways?
Clearly, once I will get it, I can try to reverse the plucking fingers order, and I will be on the beat with the m. :)

Then, my plan (but I am already doing it) is to consider triplets.
In that case the fingers end up on the beat alternatively.

I have the feeling that this approach at the beginning may help to develop the right mechanics at the beginning of the journey. But I like to hear the opinion of more expert. What do you think? :)
 
#2
barzi2001 said:
.............I have the feeling that this approach at the beginning may help to develop the right mechanics at the beginning of the journey. But I like to hear the opinion of more expert. What do you think? :)
Click to expand...
I also came over from guitar, lead electric and rhythm, and with the bass I never have a need for, I'll call it, pure alternate picking. My point, worrying about "i's or m's" is something that does not come up in my playing. That does not make it wrong or right just something I do not get into. Why?

Understand here I'm speaking of providing (playing) harmony and rhythm not melody.

The groove - how you play the chord tone harmony (individual notes in your bass line) is dictated by the drummer's kick drum pattern. My point, that pattern and pure alternate picking - in my World do not go together. That fact when we are just starting out on our bass journey sometimes falls between the chairs.

ask, locking with the kick drum - Bing video

Pull up some music and listen to the kick drum - listen beyond all the fills and zero in on just the kick drum as that is the rhythm (groove) pattern you play your bass line to. See if that kick drum pattern is going to fit into the i, m, sequences of your alternate picking, it may... my point - the kick drum rhythm sequence may or may not follow a pure alternate picking pattern and I choose to follow the kick drum pattern.

Trying to save you some time...

Good luck.

{Edit} here is a paper on alternate picking and the bass. Alternate Picking Explained And Demystified ".... Alternate picking on bass guitar is a bit of a science".
 
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#3
Hi! Thanks for the answer!
I meant "alternate plucking" and not "Alternate picking" :)
Also, I understand what you mean, but my question was more related to "create a solid reference line in my head".
I mean: you do not need to plucks all the 16th:s but just the ones that lock with the kick drum. For example, if the kick drum beating according to the sequence

8th 16th 16th - 8th 16th 16th - / - /

then I pluck the chord tone according to that, and with the sequence i i m, i i m. In that way I keep an "underlying" 16th division in my head that would help me to stay better on the beat :)
My question is: does my reasoning make sense and is that worth to study the plucking technique as I am doing? Or I can just forget it and just pluck in a purely instinctive way as it comes? Or I should study by considering alternate plucking all the time (i.e. the rhythm sequence above would be plucked with i m i, m i m, etc.)?
Hope that clarify a bit :)
 
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#4
Either way is fine and it's always good to work on more than one way to do things. FWIW, when I just tried playing 8 1616 as fast as I could strictly alternating is how I could do it. Maybe I'll spend some time working up iim.
 
#5
IMO as long as you lock with the kick drum or if no drummer lock in, and maintain, a steady groove pattern it really does not matter how you do it - IMO. Understand I'm not saying that the study of alternate -- I really do not know the difference in plucking and picking -- is bad. Everything we learn broadens our skill level. However, don't fixate on one thing, be able to flow with the song.

Have fun.
 
#6
If I were you, I'll use the sequence i m i, m i m. If the song is fast, I don't have luxary to use i im, iim, I think sticking to one technique for both fast and slow song is good (not to mix up), so I choose i m i, m i m, that is, always alternating fingers.

But I will rake when I play across strings.
 
#7
I used to teach lessons. To me, the reason you practice alternating finger exercises is so you to have to think while you are playing a song with a band.

So, practice scales and mundane exercises (perhaps looks up permutations to get your fret hand to be on board as well) always alternating. But then don't sweat it if you Tice yourself doing something different during a song. The brain is a powerful thing. It will determine (usually) the best technique to pull off a passage even without your knowing it if you have practiced the mechanics enough.
 
#8
Those of you who always alternate, how do you play disco-octaves for example? Let's say you play a 16th note figure like x-xx and you play octaves like the d on the a-string and the d one octave higher on the g-string two times which results in:
1: index finger (d on the a-string)
2: middle-finger (d on the g-string)
3: index finger (d on the g-string)

4: middle-finger on the a-string
5: index-finger on the g-string
6: middle-finger on the a-string
back to one.

I find it kind of confusing to start with the middle-finger on the a-string and tend to always start with the index-finger on the a-string at every 1 of a 4-bar rhythm. I feel better and faster this way. For a very long time I slavishly followed the always alternate route...
 
#9
barzi2001 said:
However, although for alternate plucking I read quite often "alternate all the time, no excuse!" I am not sure how should I consider group of notes, e.g. like this

8th 16th 16th - 8th 16th 16th - / - /

The way I am studying, it to pluck that sequence of notes with i i m, i i m, so that I always end up with my index finger on the beat. I think that this would create a "natural reference on the beat" that may help to gain more groooove. Also the 8th can be intended as a group 2x16th but where you pluck only the first one with the i (it is like that the second 16th is plucked with the m, but it hits "the air"). That fact may also help to keep the groove.
Do you think is that a good approach? Or should I do i m i m i m ... anyways?
Clearly, once I will get it, I can try to reverse the plucking fingers order, and I will be on the beat with the m. :)
Click to expand...
Good question, and kudos to you for wanting to get your technique right from the beginning before developing bad habits!

I think the idea you are suggesting is one that is commonly taught and used for pickstyle playing, but not for fingerstyle. (Since you're coming from guitar, I'm guessing that this is where you probably got the idea?) Carol Kaye, whose picking method for bass guitar is considered by many to be the gold standard, emphasizes playing downstrokes on downbeats and upstrokes on upbeats. So with a pick, she would play the example you provided above as down down-up down down-up -- just as you suggested with index vs. middle plucking fingers. This keeps your wrist motion (the only place, she emphasizes, where there should be any motion) synchronized with the groove. In my experience, this works great for some kinds of grooves, and it's what I try to use most of the time when playing with a pick.

However, I don't think I've ever seen a source that recommends trying to do the same thing with fingerstyle, and in my own experience it just doesn't work, or have the same effect, as it does with the strumming motion of pickstyle. Instead, most sources teach strict alternation for (2-finger) fingerstyle, with the only debate being whether strict alternation should always be maintained when crossing strings, or whether raking is acceptable when descending strings.

As for triplets, Carole's method (with a pick) is to play these as down-up-up. I find this pretty difficult and usually just maintain strict alternation instead. For fingerstyle, I think virtually all sources recommend strict alternation, despite the fact that each successive triplet starts with a different plucking finger. Another option preferred by some players, especially for fast tempos, is to use three plucking fingers so each triplet starts with the same finger.
 
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#12
Lobster11 said:
I don't think anyone said they were. OP brought up triplets as a separate topic near the end of his post, and I addressed it as a separate topic in my reply. Or maybe you're referring to a different post?
Click to expand...

I was referring to the original post as he was considering doing triplets but in this case alternat the starting finger and in my exemple worked for both situation. Sorry for the confusion
 
#14
I have Strange Plucking technique. I not always the one to get 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2. It might go 2-1-2-1-1-1-2-2-1-2-1. I also incorparate a 3 finger technique that I could only explain by going off what time signature it's in
 
#15
+1 learn three fingers, but fwiw I still will mix up just index, two fingers, three, index flicks, all mixed and depending on how fast the notes come and what feels right. However, I honestly think that I would teach someone to use just the index and middle finger from the beginning. I've waffled on that before, but I learned that way, and I'm happy that I did. Also, since most songs are written for the standard technique (or pick...), it can be more comfortable to play and learn songs that way. Best of luck!
 
#16
I honestly didn't read full thread. I've learned strict alternating (and never got back to raking) in just 2 days.
The thing is to group in "odd" rhythms and change strings. I've made an exercise for that.
It is "composed" out of two parts, then combine them together.
1. Mute strings with left hand and play (STRINGS) G G D G G D G G D, then change D D G D D G D D G. So you have groups of 3 notes, played 2-1 down and 2-1 up
2. Is to add notes. The best thing to do that is by thirds. So, you play Cmaj scale on E string (8th fret, eh?), and play thirds. When you get a handle of thirds, combine with first exercise
So you get:
C C E, D D F, E E A etc. Coming back down (assuming you play 1 finger per fret and finish on F note, G string), you go F F D, E E C etc
And then change. C E E, D F F, E A A...
Worked for me, will work for everybody. Also to mention, say OUT LOUD INDEX, MIDDLE, INDEX, MIDDLE, and play EXTREMELY SLOW! Like 60bpm whole notes. :)
Good luck
 
#17
Also good to mention, and idk why nobody says this. Why alternating?

Iamthelampshade said:
It might go 2-1-2-1-1-1-2-2-1-2-1.
Click to expand...

See here where the pattern (I assume raking) is different, and repeating same fingers. There's the problem. You might play one songs on 3000 ways with raking. And if you play with three fingers.... I don't even wanna think about it.

The solution, alternating ALWAYS. The whole song will go one of TWO ways. It's like walking. Is it easier to walk left foot, right foot, left right, or left left right left right right left right right right.

And about triplets, you can do only R M I, but only for triplets. Or M I M M I M M I M. I play M I M always. M I M I M I on triplets gets me different tone from starting on different fingers.
I play with three fingers only octaves for now, like Gary Willis.
 
#20
I don't know, I don't think I've ever followed any strict pattern. For difficult passages, I just practice until I find the easiest way to do it. It may include alternating, raking, or a mix of both. It really depends on each situation. With the index being almost half an inch shorter than the middle, it's not always the best idea to follow one strict pattern.

And of course, IMHO, YMMV, BBQ.
 
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