Time to let go 3 finger?

Recover9720

Recover9720

Oct 16, 2020
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#1
I've been practicing 3 finger for about 5-6 years. I can make steady even sound until 150 bpm but after that speed, it was always difficult for me to avoid that galloping or fast triplet sound. Maybe my brain rejected recognizing 3 finger into 16 beat. I uploaded one of my cover below. I practiced that song for years and years but still not very satisfied with the result. IIRC, that song's bpm is 175.



After that song, I tried other patterns too. My basic pattern is 3213-2132-1321 but I also practiced 3212-3212 and 3121-3121 to find my best pattern. Hmm.. all those patterns were not comfortable for me. It saves my stamina but it is really hard for me to keep accuracy.

Currently, I am practicing Iron Maiden's Run to The Hills and I found playing that tune with 2 finger can be more comfortable than 3 finger. Galloping with 2 finger is confusing but I think I can manage that. Also 2 finger's tone is much consistent than 3. So I tried other bpms like 140, 150, and there were some stamina and accuracy problems but 2 finger definitely lessened my brain's stress.

I am on the verge of letting 3 finger go. It may need much time for me to achieve high speed with much stamina. But it will help me play any line I want especially when improvising or soloing. One thing that holds me back is getting speed more than 200 bpm... but because 3 finger couldn't achieve that speed, that will be no reason for me to choose 3 finger.

So one thing I learned from this 6 years.. is that 3 finger does not guarantee faster speed. If there are some metal/jazz bassists who use 2 finger in super high speed, please let me know. My goal became playing bass solo of Dream Theater's The Dance of Eternity with two finger.
 
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#2
Juan Alderete, formerly of Racer X and The Mars Volta, is a two-finger player, and he absolutely shreds.

The late Sean Malone from Cynic played with two fingers.

If you leave the hard rock and metal realms, there's obviously Jaco and Rocco Prestia, both of whom could seemingly play 16th notes forever and never even think about incorporating a third finger.

Damian Erskine is an amazing bassist and educator who's said he could never get the three finger thing down. He uses his thumb, index, and middle instead. Learning that a player that good couldn't make the three-finger technique work was the thing that got me to question if I was spending my time wisely working on it. Like you, I've been practicing it for years and it's just never fully come together for me. It led me to wonder if certain people were simply better suited to picking up certain techniques than others. Obviously anyone can play bass, and anyone can play well with enough practice, but maybe some of us are born to shred with three fingers and some of us are not.

I've been working on Iron Maiden riffs myself with two fingers instead of three, and it does feel better after even just a little bit of practice. I'm more in control of dynamics and tone. My ring finger always seems to pluck harder than the others, unless I slow way down. Even after years and years of practice, the ring finger does not cooperate unless I put all of my focus on it.

So yeah, that's where I'm at. Wish I could be more help, but just wanted to express that I can relate to the dilemma you're dealing with. It would suck to abandon three-finger technique after so much time spent practicing it, but it would also suck to continue practicing something that's never going to work for us.
 
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#5
Kyle_S said:
Juan Alderete, formerly of Racer X and The Mars Volta, is a two-finger player, and he absolutely shreds.

The late Sean Malone from Cynic played with two fingers.

If you leave the hard rock and metal realms, there's obviously Jaco and Rocco Prestia, both of whom could seemingly play 16th notes forever and never even think about incorporating a third finger.

Damian Erskine is an amazing bassist and educator who's said he could never get the three finger thing down. He uses his thumb, index, and middle instead. Learning that a player that good couldn't make the three-finger technique work was the thing that got me to question if I was spending my time wisely working on it. Like you, I've been practicing it for years and it's just never fully come together for me. It led me to wonder if certain people were simply better suited to picking up certain techniques than others. Obviously anyone can play bass, and anyone can play well with enough practice, but maybe some of us are born to shred with three fingers and some of us are not.

I've been working on Iron Maiden riffs myself with two fingers instead of three, and it does feel better after even just a little bit of practice. I'm more in control of dynamics and tone. My ring finger always seems to pluck harder than the others, unless I slow way down. Even after years and years of practice, the ring finger does not cooperate unless I put all of my focus on it.

So yeah, that's where I'm at. Wish I could be more help, but just wanted to express that I can relate to the dilemma you're dealing with. It would suck to abandon three-finger technique after so much time spent practicing it, but it would also suck to continue practicing something that's never going to work for us.
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Thank you for your amazing words. It is good to know that I am not the only one suffering from that technique. I should check the artists you mentioned especially Juan Alderete. Your story will help me let go of that technique without turning back. I hope it is not too late to dive into two fingers. Thank you again. Now time to play even numbers notes with even fingers.
 
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#6
Perhaps it's time to reevaluate your expectations and usage of the technique, rather than tossing aside all the work you put in.

Rather than it being a workhorse technique you are powering through for minutes at a time, it's a tool to do bursts of fast runs or even to give your fingers a rest between utilizing other techniques.

When I'm walking a fast line I'll alternate between two finger plucking, down/up thumbing, thumb/pluck or thumb/pluck/pluck, maybe even up/down flicking with my fingertips. Changing my angle of attack can give some muscles or joints a little rest without giving up on the walk entirely.

Steve Bailey uses 3 fingers but in a very different way, with the first finger as a harmonic node. Given the work you already put in, perhaps that technique would be more accessible to you now and be something worth exploring a bit.

Everything you practice makes you better, there's no going backwards. You might hit a wall and have to decide whether to go over or around it, or maybe you need to return to it later when you have a ladder to help you over it.
 
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#7
JonathanPDX said:
Perhaps it's time to reevaluate your expectations and usage of the technique, rather than tossing aside all the work you put in.

Rather than it being a workhorse technique you are powering through for minutes at a time, it's a tool to do bursts of fast runs or even to give your fingers a rest between utilizing other techniques.

When I'm walking a fast line I'll alternate between two finger plucking, down/up thumbing, thumb/pluck or thumb/pluck/pluck, maybe even up/down flicking with my fingertips. Changing my angle of attack can give some muscles or joints a little rest without giving up on the walk entirely.

Steve Bailey uses 3 fingers but in a very different way, with the first finger as a harmonic node. Given the work you already put in, perhaps that technique would be more accessible to you now and be something worth exploring a bit.

Everything you practice makes you better, there's no going backwards. You might hit a wall and have to decide whether to go over or around it, or maybe you need to return to it later when you have a ladder to help you over it.
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Excellent post! That’s exactly how I see it. I practice a lot of techniques since I like it. Some techniques stick more than others. The ones that feel most natural I keep developing and make my own. As an example: double thumbing never felt natural to me, no matter how I practiced, so I developed my own ‘double thumb imitation’ slapping technique. With that I can play almost anything that the double thumbers do. I explain this technique in depth in my slap books. Many of my students actually find this easier than regular double thumb.

But my point is that with every technique you have to find a way that works for YOU, not for someone else. If it turns out that after an extensive period of practicing you can only take it so far with a certain technique you have to find other ways to do it or move on.
 
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#8
Don't be stuck in one technique: have a look on other players in other styles.
I made evolve my technic by trying mimic Mark Knopfler's one: thumb / index / middle. After some practice, it's pretty efficient on bass. You Can also look the four fingers technique of Matt Garrison on the bass. He explains it in a youtube vid. I've tried it but can't be regular with the four fingers. So i mixed it with Mark Knopfler one, plus classic two fingers, plus a pick when needed. And my technic is a mix of all that, following needs.
 
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#11
Chrisk-K said:
If you can play “Caught somewhere in tome” by Iron Maiden with two fingers like Steve does, you can play anything with two fingers.
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well not anything. It takes a totally different approach to play for example a Pastorius groove, even though both songs are played with two fingers. It’s not only about the technique or speed, you also have play with the right feel and groove according to the style you are playing.
 
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#13
A technique is just a method to play something easier/better in a certain context. If you've practice and developed this technique to a high level, which it seems like you have, but the technique doesn't help you achieve steadier, more even 16th notes above 150bpm or so, that's fine. Just use a different technique in that situation, and use 3-finger technique at the BPMs that work best for it & you. Or use 3-finger technique when you do need the gallop at those speeds. I would stress less about making this technique work and find one that does work for you. But, keep the technique in your back pocket for when it is the right tool. You don't have to ditch it altogether. Put it in your toolbox and keep adding tools.

Also, i wanna add, signal chain might play a part in why you're not in love with your results on this song, maybe? Steve Harris was playing on a P bass most of the time (i think. Iron Maiden fans can correct me. Regardless he played a bass of the era, that was fairly ballsy.) And he probably had his amp cranked way up so he could use a much lighter touch to play faster and more relaxed, while the amp ripped. "Let the amp do the work." And his amp was also a rock & roll amp of the era. Also there's probably a bit of studio compression and tape saturation evening things out.

Flip side is you're playing an incredibly hi-fi sounding bass & amp at a reasonable volume. Your bass sounds incredibly articulate, which is probably great for more Prog & Modern rock & metal formats, but that also means it's incredibly clean sounding for the balls-to-the-walls iron maiden stuff. I wonder if you played the exact same thing you just played on a P bass through a bit of compression into a CRANKED amp, if you'd be happier with your results? Because right now you're hearing every minute detail of your really clean hi-fi sound and digging into those strings a bit, as opposed to the coloration of a ballsy P through a tube amp on the cusp of breaking up.
 
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#14
I tried 3 for a while, I can never get it to feel even. Steve always played with 2 fingers, so I decided that I would stick to that as well. My biggest issue is stamina, if I am not playing every day I can't keep up those fast songs cleanly.
 
#15
Congrats!! There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. If you have worked at this as long as you say, I really think you've reached a plateau? There is also trying to work through your plateau but you are unable to get past it. That makes a goal frustrating. You may be there don't know? Take a breather and don't beat yourself up. Smooth out what you have achieved and be happy with that. Push, push, push may only make you go backwards, mentally and physically. Good luck.
 
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#17
3 fingers are not a natural beat, BUT you do a good job playing it. Better than I ever could. we all struggle with the timing between 3rd finger back to 1st finger. Think triplets, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, If you are not careful, you can feel a ever so slightly pause between 3 to 1.
again, BUT you do a very good job playing....
 
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#19
This is why I personally use two finger up to pretty decent speeds and then switch to pick if I absolutely need something faster that isn't in triplets. IMO three-finger technique on fast 16th notes and other non-triplet parts seems to work well enough for some people who are dead set on using fingerstyle only and are willing to put in significant hours to make it work, but for me simply using a pick if it makes a part easier is a much simpler solution requiring much less technique maintenance and it often still sounds more natural anyway.
 
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