Tips for playing a song without other musicians (mainly a drummer)

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Ralph124C41

Sep 20, 2012
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#1
This may sound silly but I have a big problem playing "Blue Bayou" by Linda Ronstadt in a band I'm filling in on bass. The problem is my timing or speed. The song starts out with just the bass playing and then the singer comes in and then after a measure or two the band joins in.

My problem (one of my "Kryptonite" foes) is that I don't think I've ever played a song without some accompanying instrument, especially drums. I know how the song goes and can play it pretty much note for note ... but invariably when I try to play the song I either start at a too fast or a too slow tempo. Once the rest of the band kicks in, of course, I'm fine but it's those opening measures that doom me.

It's a shame because the band's singer says it is one of her favorite songs and she does a good job at it. However I'm so bad at it that it's been taken out of the band's normal playing set and consigned to the dustbin of "other" songs or of a fill-in nature. At a recent practice the band tried it again and again I failed miserably.

I'm still a fill-in bassist ... so although I seem to be doing fine on most of the band's other songs I fear that if I can't show progress on this song that I may be replaced. My atrocious playing is not fair to the singer or to the band.

Any tips? I've tried playing the song over and over again but when I try to play it live I just come unglued. I'm so used to playing with a drummer or other musicians that I just am lousy at doing it myself.
 
#3
Internalizing the pulse and time is an ongoing process of practice and training your inner time keeper. Playing with a metronome or drum machine can help, but also can make you lazy if you come to depend on the external pulse/time source. A good technique when using a metronome/drum machine is to set a tempo(metronome) or groove (drum machine) to play for 1 or 2 bars while you play along, then have it drop out for 1 or 2 bars while you keep the time with your playing ... then have it come back and see if you are still in sync. It can be an eye opener. Ed Friedland calls it the groove test, and other teachers advocate for this practice technique too.

Another option is to use an phone/tablet app like LiveBPM which listens to a tempo and then shows a realtime graph line of how the player(s) are keeping within the tempo. I've used LiveBPM for a long time and find it very easy to use, and a pretty useful tool when trying to keep in time.

it's a journey for sure. Good luck OP!
 
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#4
pfschim said:
Internalizing the pulse and time is an ongoing process of practice and training your inner time keeper. Playing with a metronome or drum machine can help, but also can make you lazy if you come to depend on the external pulse/time source. A good technique when using a metronome/drum machine is to set a tempo(metronome) or groove (drum machine) to play for 1 or 2 bars while you play along, then have it drop out for 1 or 2 bars while you keep the time with your playing ... then have it come back and see if you are still in sync. It can be an eye opener. Ed Friedland calls it the groove test, and other teachers advocate for this practice technique too.

Another option is to use an phone/tablet app like LiveBPM which listens to a tempo and then shows a realtime graph line of how the player(s) are keeping within the tempo. I've used LiveBPM for a long time and find it very easy to use, and a pretty useful tool when trying to keep in time.

it's a journey for sure. Good luck OP!
Click to expand...
for 3.99 I went ahead and bought it, installed on phone and tablet, thanks for the info!
 
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#7
Clark W said:
for 3.99 I went ahead and bought it, installed on phone and tablet, thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
a really great drummer I play with from time to time turned me on to LiveBPM. I find it much easier to work with than live click. You still have to own time/pulse, but it gently helps you stay where you need to be.
 
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#9
This is a good moment in your growth as a bass player. You have to feel the groove in your body and mind and get into it intensely. It's like dancing. You have to generate your own time and feel... it's a bass man's domain, and not hang time on the drummer.
 
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#10
"but invariably when I try to play the song I either start at a too fast or a too slow tempo."
Most pro drummers are in charge of keeping track of what the BPM is for every song in the set, and then they typically have a click/metronome of some kind that only they can hear (some will use a blinking light type of click as well) and they count off the song, whether or not they start playing at the top of the tune or not. Sometimes they keep the click going in their ear, sometimes they turn it off during some tunes--all depends on many factors --but regardless, the drummer should be counting off the tunes at the right tempo. Does the drummer not do this? If not, how does the band start any of the songs at the correct tempo consistently every time?
Being able to pull spot-on BPMs outta thin air is not a skill many musicians have.
I haven't been in a pro band in decades where the drummer wasn't responsible for counting off at the correct BPM. If he needs to play something under you in that particular intro because your time is inconsistent is a different issue - then you gotta work on your time and playing in the pocket.
 
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#12
GaDawg78644 said:
What about a click type app that you use with an earphone?
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This is the drummer's job as I explain above.

If you're at rehearsal and the singer says "what tempo do we play this tune at?" and the drummer can't rattle off the BPM from his notes and have whatever his click/metronome of choice is ready to go, then it's fire-the-drummer time.
 
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#15
A count-in from the drummer is a good idea; you could try taking it a step further by continuing the counting silently to yourself as you play the intro. That might help keep the tempo and also provide a useful mental distraction. Stick with it - you’ll get this!
 
#16
Kansas said:
This is a good moment in your growth as a bass player. You have to feel the groove in your body and mind and get into it intensely. It's like dancing. You have to generate your own time and feel... it's a bass man's domain, and not hang time on the drummer.
Click to expand...
Really well said. This is what I wish I had learned 20 years ago.
 
#17
Ralph124C41 said:
This may sound silly but I have a big problem playing "Blue Bayou" by Linda Ronstadt in a band I'm filling in on bass. The problem is my timing or speed. The song starts out with just the bass playing and then the singer comes in and then after a measure or two the band joins in.

My problem (one of my "Kryptonite" foes) is that I don't think I've ever played a song without some accompanying instrument, especially drums. I know how the song goes and can play it pretty much note for note ... but invariably when I try to play the song I either start at a too fast or a too slow tempo. Once the rest of the band kicks in, of course, I'm fine but it's those opening measures that doom me.

It's a shame because the band's singer says it is one of her favorite songs and she does a good job at it. However I'm so bad at it that it's been taken out of the band's normal playing set and consigned to the dustbin of "other" songs or of a fill-in nature. At a recent practice the band tried it again and again I failed miserably.

I'm still a fill-in bassist ... so although I seem to be doing fine on most of the band's other songs I fear that if I can't show progress on this song that I may be replaced. My atrocious playing is not fair to the singer or to the band.

Any tips? I've tried playing the song over and over again but when I try to play it live I just come unglued. I'm so used to playing with a drummer or other musicians that I just am lousy at doing it myself.
Click to expand...
Good suggestions here about feeling time, but that's a different thing. You say the issue is starting a tune cold by yourself at a predetermined tempo consistently. Well, just as with perfect pitch, very few musicians have "perfect time" where they can pull an exact BPM outta the air like that.
Tell the drummer to get with the "pro"gram and use a click/metronome device or app that he hears and he counts off every tune at the correct tempo no matter who starts it. It's simply how it's done.
 
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#18
Whenever I’ve had to play an intro alone I take a deep breath, concentrate and think of the tempo of the chorus of the song and the phrasing of the singer.

Eliminate distraction and focus on this and you’ll do just fine.
 
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#19
Ralph124C41 said:
This may sound silly but I have a big problem playing "Blue Bayou" by Linda Ronstadt in a band I'm filling in on bass. The problem is my timing or speed. The song starts out with just the bass playing and then the singer comes in and then after a measure or two the band joins in.

My problem (one of my "Kryptonite" foes) is that I don't think I've ever played a song without some accompanying instrument, especially drums. I know how the song goes and can play it pretty much note for note ... but invariably when I try to play the song I either start at a too fast or a too slow tempo. Once the rest of the band kicks in, of course, I'm fine but it's those opening measures that doom me.

It's a shame because the band's singer says it is one of her favorite songs and she does a good job at it. However I'm so bad at it that it's been taken out of the band's normal playing set and consigned to the dustbin of "other" songs or of a fill-in nature. At a recent practice the band tried it again and again I failed miserably.

I'm still a fill-in bassist ... so although I seem to be doing fine on most of the band's other songs I fear that if I can't show progress on this song that I may be replaced. My atrocious playing is not fair to the singer or to the band.

Any tips? I've tried playing the song over and over again but when I try to play it live I just come unglued. I'm so used to playing with a drummer or other musicians that I just am lousy at doing it myself.
Click to expand...
Have the singer count the tempo off for you. That way, if it's too slow or too fast, it's on her.
 
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