Double Bass Trap Doors/Access Panels - Pros? Cons?

Sep 26, 2011
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I have had my bass about 5 or 6 years so far, and so far have not had to deal with anything around the sound post. However, from everything I read, it seems like sooner or later everyone has a sound post drop. Plus, people are forever experimenting with sound post adjustments.

Rather than doing the ship in a bottle thing, it occurs to me to have an access panel installed. This is what I would think of as a "medium-quality workshop/factory bass"; a Romanian no-name, probably from the Gliga factory, all carved.

Most important question would be: Are there any defined negatives to having a trap door? Other than possibly affecting the resale value, I mean.
 
I have had my bass about 5 or 6 years so far, and so far have not had to deal with anything around the sound post. However, from everything I read, it seems like sooner or later everyone has a sound post drop. Plus, people are forever experimenting with sound post adjustments.

Rather than doing the ship in a bottle thing, it occurs to me to have an access panel installed. This is what I would think of as a "medium-quality workshop/factory bass"; a Romanian no-name, probably from the Gliga factory, all carved.

Most important question would be: Are there any defined negatives to having a trap door? Other than possibly affecting the resale value, I mean.

A fallen post or making adjustments is a bit fiddly and needs to be done with care but is definitely not rocket surgery . The tools required don't need to cost much and if you learn how to do it yourself, you'll have a skill for life.

I can't guarantee that you wouldn't regret devaluing your nice, carved instrument with an access panel though.

Edit: The real luthiers will be able to better answer your last question but the problem that comes to mind caused by the trapdoor is the potential for introduced rattles/buzzes

Tiern
 
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I don't think that setting or adjusting a soundpost is comparable to a "ship in a bottle thing". Not that I've done the latter, but I think those folks are trying to convince a whole bunch of rigging to stand up and look convincingly/cosmetically like the real thing.

In setting a sound post, you're doing two things: cutting the post to the right size, and making it fit in the correct place (and yes, the correct place can be up for discussion depending on the desired sound).

You really don't need an access panel to get this happening. And, as Tiern says, it would devalue your bass, and potentially cause rattles. Finally, a properly fit post shouldn't fall down, unless you take off all the tension at once (which usually isn't necessary). You've said yourself that you've had your bass for 5 or 6 years, with no soundpost issues. My suggestion is, if it ain't broke...
 
The instrument is 500 years old. People started cutting access doors in basses quite recently, like they’re cars or some foolish thing.

Setting an already-fit soundpost is not especially hard in the grand scheme of things. Fitting a new post is where the violin-school voodoo training comes in.

I have an Ullman bolt-grabber. It looks like Dr. Octopus’ flexible arm and cost me $8.

It grabs, it twists, it was made in America and it’s so much better than the standard tools that are barely useful.
 
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The instrument is 500 years old. People started cutting access doors in basses quite recently, like they’re cars or some foolish thing.

Setting an already-fit soundpost is not especially hard in the grand scheme of things. Fitting a new post is where the violin-school voodoo training comes in.

I have an Ullman bolt-grabber. It looks like Dr. Octopus’ flexible arm and cost me $8.

It grabs, it twists, it was made in America and it’s so much better than the standard tools that are barely useful.

I went a similar route. The first time a soundpost drops and I have to fish it out, I adhese a very small metal washer to the center of the post, not enough to affect its response but large enough that one of those flex grabbers with a magnet on the end can grab it. It's like a lazy man's bolt-grabber.
 
As many of you have seen with my posts about it, my Alcoa bass came to me with a hinged trap door, put in place long before I owned it. The bass needed top repairs and being aluminum and welded together from the factory, a trap door was realistically the best way to make the repairs. At the time of these repairs the bass back was also treated with acoustic paint to reduce the metallic tone. But anyway, I didn't have any decision making related to the presence of the trap door, with the exception being whether or not to purchase the bass for myself.

As some have mentioned, there is a possibility of rattle with a trap door... Mine having 2 hinges riveted onto it means there are moving parts that can become loose. I've been lucky enough to find ways to prevent rattle there, but this being a metal bass with temperature expansion and contraction, things can become loose. I have considered and probably will eventually replace the rivets holding the hinges in place with tension bolt and lock nut assemblies, but for now I have eliminated rattle at the hinges with heavy duty velcro and I'm satisfied with that for the time being.

Regarding rattles and access doors though, our own James Condino has described and shown some rare-earth magnetic clasps that hold his access panels closed with no rattle and no moving parts... That seems to me to be a very good idea.

As an owner of a bass with a trap door, I've found it very useful for a few things, and if I were ever to have a new wooden bass commissioned I'd probably request a trap door be installed...

As has been discussed, the sound post is a primary reason. For me, having access to the sound post has provided a way for me personally to replace and subsequently to tune my adjustable sound post whenever I want to, rather than having to take it in and describe what I want to someone else. This is not at all to denigrate the value of having a luthier examine a bass, but for me it has been really handy to be able to do this kind of tweaking on the fly and without tools.

Another thing that is handy with a 7"x7" trap door in the driver side C is that it can be left open, providing a sizable sound hole pointing basically at the player. I've attached heavy duty velcro to points where I can keep the trap door open while playing for this purpose. I (and others) can actually hear the difference in both tone and volume, so I'd guess we're talking about at least a 10% difference with the door open. All this said though, if I were going to put a trap door in a bass exclusively to use as a driver-side sound hole, I'd place it in the upper driver-side bout, nearer to the player's ears.

Other than that, I've had some fun with leaving the trap door open for my cats to play inside... They love it. I don't know if I would do that with a more standard wood bass, but mine is pretty battle-worthy as it is setup inside and the cats can't really do any damage there. And it's fun to take pictures of them playing inside.

Of course there is the theatrical side of a trap door in a bass... I've heard of some players keeping their drinks or other things inside. That isn't probably something I'll ever end up doing though.

That said, when looking inside my bass there isn't really a lot of other interesting stuff besides air and dust... Although I did once find a loose washer rattling inside, it was nice to be able to easily remove that. The bass bar is actually part of the top, and it probably isn't moving for at least another century. I can see the neck block and the neck attachment welds which need no maintenance... And I can see the end block and endpin plug from inside; I may replace both the endpin and plug one day, but I'll do that work from the outside of the bass. Other than that, there are a few manufacturer markings in a few areas which are interesting to see, but certainly not worth installing a trap door just for those.

Regarding a fine antique wooden bass, I don't know if I'd have a trap door installed. Even if done expertly and tastefully, provenance is still a possible issue. If it's a nice old bass that I'll never sell, perhaps I would consider it more, but I'd have to not be worried at all about resale value. On the other hand, a trap door could sure make top and rib repairs easier on an older carved solid wood bass.

 
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Just as an update to my previous thread post going on 6 years down the road, the heavy duty Velcro continues to work just fine to prevent rattles with my DB's access panel. I've also added Velcro-based electronic tuner battery and pre-amp battery storage, mounted to the inside of the door itself, which seems to be a good place for them for easy access. My custom multi-footed adjustable length sound post continues to live comfortably inside, with a couple of tweaks that could only have been executed through an access panel, and I did finally install a new endpin plug and endpin earlier this year, from the outside as expected. And yes, my hot rod, steam-punk / Dali'esque Alcoa continues to get a lot of attention for being so unique, including for having its "trap door".

But this particular Alcoa probably would not be playable today without having had the addition of the access panel, so in that regard I'm glad the people who repaired the top did so. An Alcoa found in good condition probably wouldn't need it and I certainly would not have an access panel installed unless there was absolutely no other way to do needed repairs. There are other more traditional ways to access the sound post, even more conventional adjustable-length sound posts can be installed in the traditional way, and really, aside from the top repairs, anything important done inside my Alcoa could have been done through the F-holes. Had it been a relatively untouched antique, I would want to preserve it as much as possible in that condition.

That said, if I ever were to commission a brand new double bass, or even a required major rebuild of an older one such that its value as an antique would be lost anyway, it would definitely have an access panel, a removable neck, and a few other nice convenience related tweaks.
 
Nice zombie thread resurrection!

Add an access port to a historic instrument and you'll be ripped to shreds by the bass community. Incorporate it into a brand new bass that you built and they same people will call you progressive, innovative, creative, et cetera....

I've had at least one bass in my personal quiver with an access panel continuously since 2009. I'd likely never build a new bass without one. If your only goal is soundpost fit, there are plenty of other ways to approach that, but they have many more uses. Anyone that claims they can get an equal soundpost fit without one is only fooling themselves. I brought a bass with an access panel to Oberlin and nobody could get an equal post fit through the soundholes, regardless of their experience level or how much time spent, that the same person could get within 10 seconds through the access panel. I use it at almost every gig to adjust the soundpost for the room- something I never expected. There are a lot of rooms where the bass seems to drop one of the strings - the D seems most common.

Beyond just the soundpost adjustments, they turn complex repair situations that would typically require a major top off restoration into an easy hour task, so a $1500 repair turns into a $75 effort. I use them to mount internal mics and pickups, and I often use them for all of the attachment hardware for removable neck basses, so everything is clean and you cannot tell from the outside. There are a lot of different ways you could approach an access panel; some are very clean and well thought out while others are awkward, poor designs by any view, like the rental bass that was on facebook this weekend with a hole cut in the upper bout of the bass back.

I don't know anyone who has a well made access panel that dislikes it, but I know a whole lotta folks disparaging them that have never owned one or used one. Your mileage will likely vary and only direct personal experience will tell if it is the right choice for your needs. I do not install them on any historic instruments unless the rib garland is getting replaced. With those resurrection scale projects, I feel like it is a fair compromise between a modern upgrade vs the bass going into the fire pit. Done properly, I do not believe it will devalue a bass, just like a removable neck conversion tends to be worth more than a similar rigid neck bass in today's market.

I've played several gigs where I assemble the bass live while the rest of the band is playing and the audience always seems fascinated; even more so if I laugh it up a bit and pull a couple of old PBR cans and a rubber chicken out of the access panel.

Ask ten different people on talkbass the same question, and if any of them can navigate the new software, you'll get 25 different responses.
 
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