Two rigs tips and advice

Sapatown

Sapatown

Sep 16, 2016
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#1
Hello,

So Im a total newb in using two cabs and heads at the same time.

My setup is Matamp GT2 100w guitar head into a Randall 412 guitar cab for fuzz and distortion, and a Matamp GT200 bass head into a 610 or a 810 bass cab.

Im using a ABY splitter from Radial, and it sounds friggin sweet. But I come to see that alot of people talk baout destroying the guitar cabs speakers by doing this. And I need a HPF to go infront of the guitar rig.

Is this what I need? Im looking into Broughton HPF devices.. But Is it necessary?
Im already having the eq on the guitar head pretty low on bass!

Cheers guys
 
#2
Sapatown said:
Hello,

So Im a total newb in using two cabs and heads at the same time.

My setup is Matamp GT2 100w guitar head into a Randall 412 guitar cab for fuzz and distortion, and a Matamp GT200 bass head into a 610 or a 810 bass cab.

Im using a ABY splitter from Radial, and it sounds friggin sweet. But I come to see that alot of people talk baout destroying the guitar cabs speakers by doing this. And I need a HPF to go infront of the guitar rig.

Is this what I need? Im looking into Broughton HPF devices.. But Is it necessary?
Im already having the eq on the guitar head pretty low on bass!

Cheers guys
Click to expand...
Yes, the drivers in the Randall 4x12 could potentially get blown. Do you know what make/model they are? More than likely they’re generic OEM guitar speakers, not equipped for the cone excursion that a lot of low end demands, so yes, keep the lows/low mids dumped. Overall, while it’s a bit of an unorthodox set-up, there’s nothing wrong with it, but I’d look into just a 2x12 cab with proper bass compatible drivers, a 4x12 is a bit of overkill matched with either of the bass cabs. The high end will be covered just fine.
 
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#4
I can check which model the Randall 412 is asap.

So in my case, its better to use two bass rigs then, and just have one clean for lows, and the other one dirty with the highs?

I have never experienced to use two bass rigs, but will go right now to to it. A 610 Barefaced and a 810 Markbass cab.

I play in a loud doom/heavy rock duo with only bass and a loud drummer.
 
#7
Michedelic said:
Yes, the drivers in the Randall 4x12 could potentially get blown. Do you know what make/model they are? More than likely they’re generic OEM guitar speakers, not equipped for the cone excursion that a lot of low end demands, so yes, keep the lows/low mids dumped. Overall, while it’s a bit of an unorthodox set-up, there’s nothing wrong with it, but I’d look into just a 2x12 cab with proper bass compatible drivers, a 4x12 is a bit of overkill matched with either of the bass cabs. The high end will be covered just fine.
Click to expand...


This is the Randall cab. Hard to tell what type?
 

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#8
Sapatown said:
This is the Randall cab. Hard to tell what type?
Click to expand...
That looks like a cab that mimcs a Marshall down to the point that you have to take the back off(multiple screws in back, yes?). If so, get out your power drill and a Phillips bit, and get to work. After you pry the back off, then you can observe what drivers are in there(back mounted). Modern design of the majority of guitar/bass cabs has opted for front mounting with a detachable grill.
If it’s providing the sound you want, and you can schlep the gear around, more power to you. Those speaks may hold up, you never know, but if one blows, keep in mind that it would be best to replace all four with something heftier, rather than a recone and then waiting for the next one to pop.
The most efficient way to go about this, besides gettind an HPF, is to search for a dirt box that specifically has a low end roll-off, signal blender, or some sort of internal function that allows only the high frequencies to be fuzzed out, leaving the lows clean, therefore not robbing the overall sound of any punch or rumble. I’m not up on what’s out there, but I do know they are. Then you can just use the main bass set-up.
 
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#9
Michedelic said:
That looks like a cab that mimcs a Marshall down to the point that you have to take the back off(multiple screws in back, yes?). If so, get out your power drill and a Phillips bit, and get to work. After you pry the back off, then you can observe what drivers are in there(back mounted). Modern design of the majority of guitar/bass cabs has opted for front mounting with a detachable grill.
If it’s providing the sound you want, and you can schlep the gear around, more power to you. Those speaks may hold up, you never know, but if one blows, keep in mind that it would be best to replace all four with something heftier, rather than a recone and then waiting for the next one to pop.
The most efficient way to go about this, besides gettind an HPF, is to search for a dirt box that specifically has a low end roll-off, signal blender, or some sort of internal function that allows only the high frequencies to be fuzzed out, leaving the lows clean, therefore not robbing the overall sound of any punch or rumble. I’m not up on what’s out there, but I do know they are. Then you can just use the main bass set-up.
Click to expand...

You mean to use the HPF for the guitar rig, right?
Do get the lows out of the thing
 
#12
Better to just use a 412 bass cab with a guitar head maby, I found a Aguilar GS412 for 600 dollars used where I live. Maby try that and use the guitar tube head on it instead.
 
#13
Doug Pinnick of Kings X used to use rackmount SVT stuff driving Ampeg 810s for the lows, and split off a mids and highs signal to be distorted and fed to a guitar cab. To achieve the split I think he just used radically adjusted rackmount graphic EQs, not actual crossover units.

I saw Kings X a few times in the 90s and I remember one time his highs were going to what looked like a red-knob era Fender tube head and a 4 x 12 with no badge on it. Another time the “dirty highs” head looked like it might have been a Traynor tube head driving a 4 x 12. Then later in a magazine article I read something about him using a rackmount Line 6 Pod Pro to distort the highs.

It was a big rig, a ton of stuff. But it sounded pretty massive and abdominally cramptastic in the venues I saw him in.
 
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#14
Sapatown said:
Hello,

So Im a total newb in using two cabs and heads at the same time.

My setup is Matamp GT2 100w guitar head into a Randall 412 guitar cab for fuzz and distortion, and a Matamp GT200 bass head into a 610 or a 810 bass cab.

Im using a ABY splitter from Radial, and it sounds friggin sweet. But I come to al;ly awesomsee that alot of people talk baout destroying the guitar cabs speakers by doing this. And I need a HPF to go infront of the guitar rig.

Is this what I need? Im looking into Broughton HPF devices.. But Is it necessary?
Im already having the eq on the guitar head pretty low on bass!

Cheers guys
Click to expand...

I would recommend it if that what you rig is and how you plan to use it.

I had a Rico Sound set up back in the 70s, and I had a Hiwatt custom 100 powering a 412 Hiwatt guitar bottom for the bridge pick up. The neck pickup went into and SVT that powered an Ampeg V4b 2-15 reflex Cab ( the Freezer, not the Fridge). Things was about the size of casket, and weighed as much as one that was loaded, but I digress.

Anyway, the effect was totally awesome with one small slight issue. Finding OEM Rane speakers was about impossible at a reasonable price, so I replaced them with used Celestions at about $25 a pop ( adjusted for inflation in today's dollar $100 a piece) at the rate of about one or 2 a month for about a year until the power trio I was in disbanded.

I do believe an investment is a HPF would be very cost effective against the alternative.
 
#16
If you love the tone you are getting, keep using what you have and....


1) ....put an HPF after the splitter on the guitar side of the signal chain. It'll protect the speakers (somewhat) and likely not affect the tone one bit.

2)...have realistic volume expectations for that side. The problem you may experience the need to feel the air move from that cab just like you would a good bass cab. Essentially, you want that side to sound like a beefy guitar on top of your bass. Don't expect to "feel" that side as much as you hear it. Use the bass side to kick yourself in the ribs with bass tone.

Let each side do its own job, and have some sense about you, and you'll likely be fine.
 
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#17
Sapatown said:
Im already having the eq on the guitar head pretty low on bass!
Click to expand...

The EQ on guitar amps is usually rather misleading. To get a flat response out of a Fender or Marshall amp, you usually need something like mids at full, and bass and treble at 1, maybe 2 - you may think the bass is dialed back on your amp, but it may not be - on 2 or 3, it might actually be boosted. A high pass filter will help a lot, if set high enough.
 
#19
Sapatown said:
My setup is Matamp GT2 100w guitar head into a Randall 412 guitar cab
Click to expand...
I see no worry of a GUITAR amp powering a GUITAR cab would blow speakers. If that was the case the whole MI would be worried about it too.

Sapatown said:
But I come to see that alot of people talk baout destroying the guitar cabs speakers by doing this.
Click to expand...
I fear the misconception has already happened on this thread. Yes its possible for a BASS amp to blow GUITAR speakers for a few different reasons. You have two separate rigs each dedicated to separate tonal frequencies so IMHO play-on.
 
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#20
MrKpawz said:
I see no worry of a GUITAR amp powering a GUITAR cab would blow speakers. If that was the case the whole MI would be worried about it too.


I fear the misconception has already happened on this thread. Yes its possible for a BASS amp to blow GUITAR speakers for a few different reasons. You have two separate rigs each dedicated to separate tonal frequencies so IMHO play-on.
Click to expand...


Great to hear! I will experiment more. I have blown two speakers in my life, a 2x12 and a 1x15, but then I were younger and reckless, Im 33 years old now.

Im curios if some of you know what kind of guitar cab 4x12 that works well with a electric bass.
Thats why I get so confused, because since im using a guitar head into a guitar cab, and plug my PASSIVE electric bass into it, why it would harm the speakers. I don't understand the logic there.

Its just fatter strings on the instrument right? Or is it the pickups that are making the difference?
The bass instrument is a passive PJ btw.

Im not worried about the bass head into a bass cab at all..

Also, Im not doing the Rick O Sound thing with a Y cable atm. I have two basses and the other one is actually a Rickenbacker 4003, but have never tried it. I like the PJ a bit better for this project, and Im going fullrange mono on both the guitar rig and bass rig with the ABY box.

Previous monday, I tried to do two bass rigs instead, a 610 cab with a 200w bass tube head, and a 810 with a cheap markbass SS head instead. But it did sound way too bassy, boomy, muddy.

The guitar rig just makes the sound get so much better.
 
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