Double Bass Use (and abuse) of inversions in walking bass lines

D

dexter3d

Jul 4, 2005
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Lithuania
#1
Hi there,

How often do you use a chord tone (3, 5, 7) instead of a root on beat 1? My understanding is that this should be an exception rather than a rule, otherwise your walking will sound more like a bass solo and lose that harmonic clarity.
Any example recordings with lots of inversions that sound good? Haven't noticed that many of them in Ray Brown's playing.
 
#2
Hmmm... I'd have to go back through my transcriptions, but I'd guess that Ray played a pitch other than the root or the 5th on beat one between 15 and 20% of the time. I suppose that might have changed over time.

IMO, playing non-roots on one is just one more device a bassist can employ to make music. It's true that it can make the harmonic movement more difficult to discern. That by itself could be "interesting" or "irritating" depending on the listener and the context. It can certainly confuse band members who are used to hearing "roots on one" most of the time. IME, much of the time, another pitch on beat one suggests to me that the melody of the bass line is more important than obviously outlining the harmonic movement.

Personally, I think it's a great device to explore and I used to work exercises where I'd play a tune: always roots on one, never roots on one, frequently roots on one, seldom roots on one, roots on one at the beginning and ends of phrases always, roots on one at the beginning and ends of phases sometimes, etc. I recorded those exercises and would listen back a week or two later and see what I liked and didn't like.

HTHs.
 
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#3
I was taught to always use the root on 1, unless there are two chords per bar.

Context matters, obviously, but if you're talking meat-and-potatoes, working man's basslines, I follow the rule above.

With two chords per bar, root can appear on beat 2 or 4, or not at all.

The greats (Ray Brown, etc...) break the rules now and then, but they usually have a darn good reason for doing so.
 
#4
To me Ray would play through the changes and melodically connect the chords together.

48/84. That’s what I counted from “Blues for Basie” from tod coolman’s “the bass tradition.”
That is a beautiful bass line that has a very lyrical quality and follows a nice contour up and down the neck.

Milt Hinton. I expected a lot more of root down from “home”. Especially since his is the old school original great.
50/96 on flying home.

So definitely not as frequent as you’d suspect. There are also a lot of delayed resolutions and other chord tones in there as well. I expect if you counted chord tones it would be 95%

So the lesson is it’s much more important to shape a lyrical bass line even on old school straight ahead jazz.

P.S. the coolman book is a must have.
 
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#8
Tom Lane said:
For bass line transcriptions, Mike Downes book is very good, IMO. He transcribed 12 famous player's lines playing the blues and Rhythm Changes, starting with the 1930s through the 1960s. I think it's very cool to see how the lines changed over time.
Click to expand...
There are also transcriptions in the back of Sher's "The Improvisor's bass method."
 
#9
craigie said:
To me Ray would play through the changes and melodically connect the chords together. So the lesson is it’s much more important to shape a lyrical bass line...
Click to expand...

This. It's not guesswork, it's not formulas, it's not rules. It's about actually hearing what note you want to play, hearing that note NOT in isolation in the context of single chord but as an arc through a chord progression and, even more so, hearing that arc as a melodic response to both the composed melody and what you actually hear going on around you, coupled with your own internal, aural conception of the music.

All of the repetitive work with scales and arpeggios and half step approach and chord tone/strong beat is to help lead you to actually HEARING that stuff as a musical response. But it's like that great scene in ENTER THE DRAGON


Transcribing is a way to look at what somebody else said in a conversation. But ultimately the idea is to say what YOU want to say, right? PC was the best possible version of PC that there was, because he WAS Paul Chambers. Even the best possible copy of PC is still just a copy. There are some ways to use transcription to get to the root of the improvisational voice, I've outlined those a number of times on this site. There are some exercises that can help you get the sound of a harmonic progression in your ears in order to start hearing what YOUR response to the music is, I've outlined those several times here as well.
 
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#13
Some good advice here, thanks. When I try to analyse how I walk, it's mostly striving to avoid repetition and making the line as unpredictable as possible :) It kind of works, but playing a game with the main soloist is of course another level. I always wondered though how exactly you do it - do you follow the movement (up/down), or try to replicate tension (if the soloist builds up tension, do you also follow). I gather turnarounds usually go per standard formula, there isn't much you can invent there
 
#14
You'll spend the rest of your life on this. Just be sure to steer clear of dogma like "abuse of inversions." All of the above advice is good. Don't forget - you're a creator too, not just a bass part machine. Two big personal inspirations for me are JSBach and Israel Crosby. It's a bottomless pit. And don't forget to make the drummer sound good. How you play is often much more important than what you play.
 
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#15
Ed Fuqua said:
This. It's not guesswork, it's not formulas, it's not rules. It's about actually hearing what note you want to play, hearing that note NOT in isolation in the context of single chord but as an arc through a chord progression and, even more so, hearing that arc as a melodic response to both the composed melody and what you actually hear going on around you, coupled with your own internal, aural conception of the music.

All of the repetitive work with scales and arpeggios and half step approach and chord tone/strong beat is to help lead you to actually HEARING that stuff as a musical response. But it's like that great scene in ENTER THE DRAGON


Transcribing is a way to look at what somebody else said in a conversation. But ultimately the idea is to say what YOU want to say, right? PC was the best possible version of PC that there was, because he WAS Paul Chambers. Even the best possible copy of PC is still just a copy. There are some ways to use transcription to get to the root of the improvisational voice, I've outlined those a number of times on this site. There are some exercises that can help you get the sound of a harmonic progression in your ears in order to start hearing what YOUR response to the music is, I've outlined those several times here as well.
Click to expand...

On a side note, I am amazed at how much Bruce Lee has affected my musicianship and even my life in general. “Be Like Water” is something I think of several times a day. “Feel” is another. And there are more.
 
#16
dexter3d said:
Some good advice here, thanks. When I try to analyse how I walk, it's mostly striving to avoid repetition and making the line as unpredictable as possible :) It kind of works, but playing a game with the main soloist is of course another level. I always wondered though how exactly you do it - do you follow the movement (up/down), or try to replicate tension (if the soloist builds up tension, do you also follow). I gather turnarounds usually go per standard formula, there isn't much you can invent there
Click to expand...

Maybe it's a language thing, but I question the utility of making a line "unpredictable". You should be improvising based on what you're hearing.
Again, I would get rid of this idea of formulas (if A, then B, etc.) and really start working on hearing. What sort of ear training are you doing?
 
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#17
dexter3d said:
Hi there,

How often do you use a chord tone (3, 5, 7) instead of a root on beat 1? My understanding is that this should be an exception rather than a rule, otherwise your walking will sound more like a bass solo and lose that harmonic clarity.
Any example recordings with lots of inversions that sound good? Haven't noticed that many of them in Ray Brown's playing.
Click to expand...
I think you have answered your own question.
For all other “experimentalists”, I would recommend starting with “Autumn Leaves” and playing those 3rds, 5ths, and 7ths instead of roots on each Beat 1, while comping(!).
Please share your aural experience of that newly discovered sonority.
Do you like it?
If yes, go for it.

P.S. I am not talking about “modal Jazz” or “If the harmony is well-established”, etc...situations.
 
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#18
In reading this thread it really makes me think about how jazz is being taught. The acedemic approach really does fail when people try to distill sounds down to percentages. Ultimately practicing and listening should develop a vocabulary which you can employ in servicing the music. Percentages and rules be damned.

If there are “rules” in jazz they’re best understood as aural traditions. It’s similar to how in baroque music avoided parallel 5ths and octaves though in rare occasions even Bach employed them. It’s not a rule, it’s better thought of as a stylistic paradigm. You should do enough listening/transcribing to understand the tradition but never be afraid to break with it if that achieves your desired result.
 
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#19
Ed Fuqua said:
Maybe it's a language thing, but I question the utility of making a line "unpredictable". You should be improvising based on what you're hearing.
Again, I would get rid of this idea of formulas (if A, then B, etc.) and really start working on hearing. What sort of ear training are you doing?
Click to expand...

By 'unpredictable' I mean avoiding repetition of the same 'blocks' of walking. I did quite a bit of ear training at school (intervals and chords, recognising them blindly in different voicings, from different roots etc, transcribing simple melodies upon first listening), but I confess ear training isn't part of my present practice routine. How do you ear train for walking bass purposes?
 
#20
dexter3d said:
By 'unpredictable' I mean avoiding repetition of the same 'blocks' of walking. I did quite a bit of ear training at school (intervals and chords, recognising them blindly in different voicings, from different roots etc, transcribing simple melodies upon first listening), but I confess ear training isn't part of my present practice routine. How do you ear train for walking bass purposes?
Click to expand...

Transcribe!!!
 
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