very basic question

[CherylTheSinger]

It seems so basic, and demands a teacher to student hands on approach, but I am getting frustrated as a beginning player holding the bass.

I would love to see more information about simply holding the instrument (standing), and playing the E string with a bow without bumping into oneself, nor supporting the weight of the instrument with one's left hand.
Is there a good video to watch that may explain it more-- by what you see me describe below?

I have had 6 bass lessons so far, and have been very happy with my improvement. My teacher started me with Simandl. I am an adult beginner, but studied violin as a child for about 10 years, and hold a masters degree in voice.

My most recent challenge was overcoming a fair amount of fatigue/pain in my left hand. (I mean there are plenty of challenges lol, but this seemed to be the most pressing to me at the time, as I suddenly could barely get through a few passages without needing to rest.) I thought at first, it was because I was new at this and not strong, but I discovered three days ago, that I had slipped into supporting the weight of the bass almost entirely with my left hand. I stopped that, and boom, NO PAIN, zero fatigue, even after 30 minutes or more of playing. That's a huge jump from 1 minute. I suspect that it even helped correct a little of the bouncing that I had with my bow, but I can't be sure. That could be from the work I have been doing to fix it click in.

I now have a new problem (or an old problem revisited). When I try to play on the E string with my German bow I either bump into my woman right hip, shift the bass where the weight of it goes back to my left hand, or strain my right hand/arm with an odd twist to get any kind of sound.

I messed with the end pin height, but that didn't seem to make much of a difference. I tried holding the bass with ribs, it slipped upward onto a very different body part, lol, not like that.. I swatted down like I was about to lift weights in a gym... yeah that looked silly like I was really trying to make little bass/human babies, and wasn't helpful. I cocked my left heal upward and had my knee take all of the weight in the middle of the back.. That I haven't seen, pretty sure that's just silly, but it sort of helped. Backing up throws us both off balance. Although I was able to do a fast little backwards switch, shoulder roll and sexy hair flip when I did it.. yeah no UGH! What I was doing was allowing my belly to balance it a bit, then leaning the bass back into my left hand. I instinctively try and do this when I play on the E string, but I know from the pain going away when I stopped it that I shouldn't do that. What I am doing currently that takes away left hand pain, but gives right hand awkwardness and pain is:

standing with the back of the bass on my left thigh, a little on the side of my knee and on the left hip. I can play on any string without even touching the bass with my left hand or arm, but that E string stance can't be correct. I can't get at the angle I think I need with my right hand/arm. Except for the E string.. omg I don't really bounce the bow as much as I did, but I hope that isn't from the bass leaning into the bow.. I guess.

I will see my teacher soon, but I would love to see more information about exactly what players do to over come this, if they have the issue at all. Everything I read or watch addresses how to hold the bass and the bow, but it never gets into this E string issue. I just feel like I am on pause right now and I hate that! I am very small, precise and persnickety, and I think it's a necessary evil to be persnickety about technique for me if I am going to do this successfully.

This is out of no disrespect to my teacher, what he says will go, I am just excited to learn to play this fabulous instrument.

Thanks!

 

[rgarcia26]

I just want to share what I have found on my 5 months of playing, on my research and struggling.

Then take advise from the pros
by the way sorry for my grammar is just horrible!

My back ground
BG player for 20 years no professionally
Small person 5 6"
Big bass 43" scale

I attached some of the videos that I used to guide me, but I notice that all the guys are fairly bigger than me...does the same apply to us??? may be not, but they give you a guide, to start experimenting.

Check first Jason Heaths Different standing positions some people stand with the right leg stopping the lower bound, some people dont!



http://doublebassblog.org/2008/05/standing-versus-sitting-for-the-double-bassist.html

Michael Klinghoffer (Great series of videos, I recommend to see all his videos) Ps I got the book also great info

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gn6xlVSax4

Very Good info

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLBcRA0Rpss

Great information from J. Claton but only Pizz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Cc-aaz50o

My Reflection:

There are so many ways that you can stand, its boils down to personal choice its not a set rule!!! my teacher told me that he can help you but ultimately is up to you to find my balance.
and what is work for me

when playing the bass there are so many variables to be aware at the same time:



There is a Given and take with E string... if you angle your bass (Counter clockwise) you can have better access to the E string when bowing, but then G string may be to far, try to stand a little behind your bass to have better access to the E string but be mindful of the G String, after trying and trying it get easier I promise.

I was like you at the beginning and now some days i got it right but some days is not great as it used to be, with more practice I am sure I will get to be consistent...

As now I am (and this may sound funny) but I took real boxing classes years ago and a big thing when boxing is a good standing while fighting (of course you dont want to fall), so a good stable position of my center of gravity, on my heals, my knee flexed a little all relax body!!! hold my the bass arms length (Making sure that I got access to the lower register (I am studding G Vance we do thumb position from the beginning)). and then I let the bass rest of me...

To the E string:

You can always rotate the bass a little when playing the E string and then rotate the bass back (I don't know what the pros would add to this).

To the Thump position:

Also Rotate the bass Counter clockwise if i will be in the Thumb position for a long time.

To play

You can place your leg of the lower bound to prevent the bass from rotating or not (I play both sometimes it works nice something it doesnt, the lower bound without support my bass tend to turn to Rotate).

And last but not least, after playing stench my back, arms wrists... try to keep a flexible body (Pain free) and avoid injuries now or in the future, because our bad bass playing habits.

I hope this helps Good luck in your Quest Ruben

 

[CherylTheSinger]

thank you so much!

I am almost 5'1", but I do have long legs. 3/4 size bass, and it's small.

So far, with my teacher, he raised my end pin by several inches and had me stand a lot more behind the bass. My belly is what holds it mostly now, but I can use a little thigh if I feel like I need to. I am still practicing it, but it worked. Even though the bass can move when I breath to sing, it didn't seem to affect my bowing.

 

[rgarcia26]

thank you so much!

I am almost 5'1", but I do have long legs. 3/4 size bass, and it's small.

So far, with my teacher, he raised my end pin by several inches and had me stand a lot more behind the bass. My belly is what holds it mostly now, but I can use a little thigh if I feel like I need to. I am still practicing it, but it worked. Even though the bass can move when I breath to sing, it didn't seem to affect my bowing.

I am glad to hear that you are doing better now... my bass is a 3/4 also but it will be on the larger 3/4 side... and as you know I am 5 6" my end pin its almost all in... I don't think we can really tell you if the high of ur End pin/Bass combination is right for you without seeing you... Video/Pics ect. The standard that i know is that the Nut of your bass should be somewhere at the high of your eyebrows, but then you can have problems reaching the correct position with your bow!!! that's also a place when you need to find the balance between end pin/bass angle.

But to me sound like standing a little behind your bass and using some thigh makes sense.

Practice in front of a mirror or have someone helping you, my 2 cents tells me that at our early start we should focus a lot on Ergonomics (there is some serious risk of injuries on playing the bass) take the time to listen to our bodies... sometime I dedicate a whole practice session just to get my standing position /Bow /Arm /Back /Legs right...PM if you got any questions... I am glad to help, but sorry that I can't be more helpful

 

[coldtrain]

This video really made me rethink my own stance which I had been struggling with as I had been trying all sorts of heights and positions. I didn't copy Herr Stoll's stance, but it gave me some great insight into my own, maybe it will help you as well:



Watch Gary Karr, Edicson Ruiz, Bozo Paradzik, etc, lots of standing German bow players out there to investigate.

One thing is for sure though, don't fall into a static or rigid position -- be flexible and move with the bass as you need to in order to get the best bow and left hand positions.

Hope this helps!

 

[PNeher]

A bent end pin, also called a Laborie End Pin, or an angled end pin, solved all of these issues for me. Watch my videos on YouTube and you see how easy it can be to play the bass, on any string. Be aware, IMO, that a little weight on the left hand thumb is desirable to manipulate the angles of the bass, to balance it and to know exactly where your left hand is regarding "positions." If you decide you cannot get the balance and all, the option of sitting is certainly viable and acceptable. MANY bassists (including me for 25 years) are/were sitting players. There are at least two stances for the sitting position: one with both feet flat on floor, and another with the left leg up on a low rung of the stool. Be aware that sitting and of course standing, change the angles of the bow to the bass. Your arm, when it travels up and down bows, must accommodate these angles in order to have the bow travel perpendicular to the string (the most efficient plane of travel).

Please check past threads on this subject. The bent end pin is, again, for ME, THE best way to stand with the bass -- for both arms/hands.

Good luck and check in with us often!
PN