Watt Headroom??

B

bass fishing

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Dec 3, 2016
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#1
Hey peeps!

Is it a bad idea to pump *1200 watts @ 8ohms into an *800 watt @ 8 ohms (rms)
1600 watt (peak) cab? Over time? At all? I feel like thats 400 watts of headroom with 400 to spare until damage. Any help appreciated.
Thanks!

*Ampeg SVT-4Pro into GK NEO 410.
 
#3
bass fishing said:
Hey peeps!

Is it a bad idea to pump *1200 watts @ 8ohms into an *800 watt @ 8 ohms (rms)
1600 watt (peak) cab? Over time? At all? I feel like thats 400 watts of headroom with 400 to spare until damage. Any help appreciated.
Thanks!

*Ampeg SVT-4Pro into GK NEO 410.
Click to expand...

Peak is instantaneous. The speaker is rated to take peak levels for very short durations, perhaps measured only in seconds or even milli-seconds.
Peak figures should not be used to figure headroom.
The way I look at, you are constantly over-driving the cab by 400 watts.
Thermal as well as mechanical considerations come into play.
Peak ratings do not take these factors into account over times of seconds or longer.
Or put more simply, I think it us a bad idea.
 
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#5
bass fishing said:
SVT-4Pro
Click to expand...
That one is only 900w at 8 ohms.

But, I try to never power a cab at over 1/2 its rating - especially if I'm going use any overdrive whether from a pedal or the amp itself. With overdrive the amp's true output can approach 2x its rating :wideyed:.
But as I often say here - "Smoke 'em if yah got 'em" :nailbiting:
 
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#8
bass fishing said:
Hey peeps!

Is it a bad idea to pump *1200 watts @ 8ohms into an *800 watt @ 8 ohms (rms)
1600 watt (peak) cab? Over time? At all? I feel like thats 400 watts of headroom with 400 to spare until damage. Any help appreciated.
Thanks!

*Ampeg SVT-4Pro into GK NEO 410.
Click to expand...
You can but be carefull on the master volume. Judge by your hear, specialy if you have an aggressive style (slapping or picking).
 
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#11
agedhorse said:
Peak is generally 4x the "RMS" or thermal rating. 2x is due to purely a math conversion and 2x due to the crest factor used in the test that relates to the term "program power".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too...

I think the woofer is a custom 16-ohm Deltalite variant, presumably rated at 200 watts each instead of the normal 250 watts due to the thinner wire used to get the 16 ohm impedance. Good for GK taking that into account.
 
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#12
DukeLeJeune said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too...

I think the woofer is a custom 16-ohm Deltalite variant, presumably rated at 200 watts each instead of the normal 250 watts due to the thinner wire used to get the 16 ohm impedance. Good for GK taking that into account.
Click to expand...
Don't they manufacture their own drivers?
 
#13
As best I understand it the GK Neo cabs have GK designed and built drivers - Paragon is the trade name for their speakers I believe. When manufacturing on amps and cabs was moved totally back to the US, I suppose it's possible that they could have run into a production capacity issue and needed to have some things produced by an outside supplier. However, at their price point I suspect they keep everything in house.
 
#14
According to this interview The International Institute Of Bassists | Product Spotlight with Bob Gallien

paragon.PNG
 
#15
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#16
As a side note, using a driver manufacturered by one of the major driver manufacturers gives service and replacement options that are not possible with drivers manufactured in house using some sourced parts. A top of the line driver by the top driver manufacturers are just about impossible to design and build in house for the cost that the majors can do it for since they can spread the tooling and design costs (plus economies of scale advantages) over hundreds of thousands of drivers... far more drivers than the entire bass industry as a whole uses.
 
#17
It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of the various components. Perhaps GK uses a number of common cast parts and/or other components and does some unique things in assembly to keep costs low. I suppose it's also possible that they may have some unique business arrangement for sourcing rare-earth materials/Neodymium magnets and are able to gain a price advantage that way. It's difficult to imagine how they overcome the hurdle of absorbing the full amortization of production costs associated with in-house manufacturing while maintaining a high level of quality and offering highly competitive street pricing. Competing with economy of scale production benefits is an uphill climb, but sometimes folks find an edge or angle they can exploit - hopefully it's a sustainable advantage.
 
#19
To answer your original question, I think you should be able to power your speaker with 1 to 2 times the continuous rating of it AS LONG AS YOU DON'T DRIVE IT INTO CLIPPING.

The thing about bass reproduction is that the signal is all transients. The good thing about transients is that the time gaps between notes let the voice coils cool down thereby lowering power compresseriom.

As I've reported before, I use a total overabundance of power when I play. I use 2 × 400 watt cabinets and power them with a Powersoft amp that delivers 2,600 watts per channel, so I have boat loads of reserve power and headroom. I've never blown a single driver because I know the limits of what my setup will do and never push it harder than it can handle.
 
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#20
History has shown me that there are plenty of folks that also do not know their cabinet's limits when overpowered.

Just because you, Gizmot, have been successful powering your rig the way you have only means that you have good judgement and reasonable expectation with your rig. Not every player shares your ability.
 
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