Hey all! Like so many times we as bass players have a difficult time hearing ourselves onstage. For this IEM's are amazing and am wishing this was available a hundred years ago lol. I have two bands currently 1) we use IEM exclusively the other band is old school bigger the better rig (oh my 53 year old back). So here is my question, the big rig works amazing for large venues (SWR power with 2) Henry 8x8s, excessive yes). For smaller venues I'm thinking about using simply a wedge monitor with my Markbass 800. I should be able to hear myself clearly and have control without cranking a rig and having the sound guy be up in my grill about loud stage volume? He at that point should be able to run house sound levels easier? So I've looked at the Eden wedge (not available anymore), Markbass (not available) Ampeg (way to expensive)....I have a 1x12 wedge just sitting in the basement.....load it with a "bass" speaker, any recommendations? anyone go down this path before?
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Wedge Monitor
- Thread starter SirNoodlesAlot
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- in ear monitor stage volume wedge
Moving to a smaller venue doesn’t make it easier or more practical to use wedges, it makes it harder - stage wash becomes a bigger and bigger problem as you go smaller in scale. You can get away with amps and wedges in an arena, but in a small club that’s a recipe for poor sound. Do you want your band to sound bad?
While I am not using it with an Amp head I am using a headrush 112 cab and it works perfectly for me in the same way you are looking to use the wedge.... If I were you I would double check but I would assume you could run to the 112 cab from your 800 effects send and then run out of the XLR to house....
I read this as the OP wanting to use a smaller rig in the band that does not use IEMs for monitoring.
Yes, a smaller, quieter amp and speaker combo will give the sound guy more control over the mix -- certainly a desirable thing. Of course that's also true if you just turn down your big rig.
But many wedge monitors are designed with the concept of trading off some LF response for a smaller form factor, as well as emphasizing the vocal range, so it would depend on what wedge you're considering whether or not you'll find the results satisfactory. I would think a JBL SRX-815 might serve, for example, but I don't know that something smaller would. Still, there are a lot of guys here on TB who seem to be happy with what I would consider to be tiny rigs -- the aforementioned Headrush 112, for example. Apparently it's situational -- your situation might bear it. I would never try to use something like that in a band playing rock covers with an average loud drummer, for instance, but YMMV.
Yes, a smaller, quieter amp and speaker combo will give the sound guy more control over the mix -- certainly a desirable thing. Of course that's also true if you just turn down your big rig.
But many wedge monitors are designed with the concept of trading off some LF response for a smaller form factor, as well as emphasizing the vocal range, so it would depend on what wedge you're considering whether or not you'll find the results satisfactory. I would think a JBL SRX-815 might serve, for example, but I don't know that something smaller would. Still, there are a lot of guys here on TB who seem to be happy with what I would consider to be tiny rigs -- the aforementioned Headrush 112, for example. Apparently it's situational -- your situation might bear it. I would never try to use something like that in a band playing rock covers with an average loud drummer, for instance, but YMMV.
I don't think I would want to use a stage monitor as an alternative to a decent bass cab. I would have doubts about sound and durability. Not even if you put a bass speaker in it, because then you have all the problems of tuning and redesigning the enclosure to suit your new speaker. But wouldn't your need be fulfilled if you use a speaker stand for a bass combo or cab so that its pointed in exactly the same direction that the wedge would be?
I have a MarkBass 121HR wedge that is wonderful! Maybe you can still order one on MF?
Guess I should've clarified "smaller venue"....let's just say the gig would never be without 1 Marshall half stack and a loud drummer.
This is what I've been wondering about!!!! Seems to me this would equate into solving multiple problems in one shot. Ampeg makes one as well with neo's...Seems to me having it directed at me as opposed to the back of me would work for SOME venues, nice to have options?
Why don’t you just take 1 Henry for small stages? Just putting it out there.
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Celestion pulse 12.
They're on sale right now on Musician's Friend.
And, additional 20% off with the promo code
STOCKUP
It's hard to imagine a typical SR-type floor monitor could keep up in this scenario. Maybe a specialty, wedge-shaped bass cab would work, but I'm of the opinion that a smallish standard bass cab on a stand might work as well or better.
I love the wenge neck on my Warmoth bass. It is a great wood but I've never heard of it being used for monitors.
Oooohhhh, wedge, not wenge.
Oooohhhh, wedge, not wenge.
this is what I use on some gigs.
Fearless F112. But it’s probably more expensive than the ampeg.
Still it is such a great sounding cabinet!
Still it is such a great sounding cabinet!
Budget permitting, Schroeder would also be my first choice for something like this. He can make pretty much anything you'd like within the optimal size needed for the speaker(s) you want to use. Give him a contact through his website and I would be shocked if you don't get a reply within 24 hours.
The solution is not simply moving to a smaller rig. If you want to keep the volume low, the trick is to change your setup so you can hear better at a lower volume.
My approach is to elevate my cab and tilt it back to aim at my head. My primary cab when I was still touring was an Eden D210XLT. It's a fairly large and heavy 210 with a high sensitivity rating. I usually stacked it vertically on a 16sp rolling rack (about waist level) with a spare Countryman Type 85 wedged under the front edge of the cab. I think my QSC USA 900 power amp was rated for about 240W, and I never pushed it to clipping with this setup.
In my experience it's fairly hard to find a wedge that really sounds good with bass. I have a GK 700RB/112 combo that kicks back like a wedge. For some reason the low end gets sort of a hallow, phasey quality when it is kicked back on the floor. The lows are more even with it flat on the floor, but then I don't hear the mids and highs as well. This cab sounds better to me if it's elevated by at least 18" or so. It sounds great kicked back if it's elevated.
If I run an amp and a wedge, I generally don't want to the lows coming from the wedge. If I am having trouble hearing the bass, I may ask for it to be put in the wedge but I think it sounds better to high pass the wedge at 150hz or so to prevent it from fighting with my bass cab. So the wedge just give a bit of clarity in the mids to help punch through. If the wedge is run without an HPF, I find that adding bass to the mix can give you a sense of volume, but your sound still seems to still get lost in the mix. This is the phasey quality I was referring to. You can tell it's (too) loud, but you still can't hear very well.
Elevating the cab will lean out the low and sent all of the mids and highs straight to your ears. If you like a big pillowy sound, you are sort of stuck, and will need to put your cab on the floor and run it at a low enough level to get the audio tech off your back. This probably means the bass will be way lower in the on-stage mix than you want.
My approach is to elevate my cab and tilt it back to aim at my head. My primary cab when I was still touring was an Eden D210XLT. It's a fairly large and heavy 210 with a high sensitivity rating. I usually stacked it vertically on a 16sp rolling rack (about waist level) with a spare Countryman Type 85 wedged under the front edge of the cab. I think my QSC USA 900 power amp was rated for about 240W, and I never pushed it to clipping with this setup.
In my experience it's fairly hard to find a wedge that really sounds good with bass. I have a GK 700RB/112 combo that kicks back like a wedge. For some reason the low end gets sort of a hallow, phasey quality when it is kicked back on the floor. The lows are more even with it flat on the floor, but then I don't hear the mids and highs as well. This cab sounds better to me if it's elevated by at least 18" or so. It sounds great kicked back if it's elevated.
If I run an amp and a wedge, I generally don't want to the lows coming from the wedge. If I am having trouble hearing the bass, I may ask for it to be put in the wedge but I think it sounds better to high pass the wedge at 150hz or so to prevent it from fighting with my bass cab. So the wedge just give a bit of clarity in the mids to help punch through. If the wedge is run without an HPF, I find that adding bass to the mix can give you a sense of volume, but your sound still seems to still get lost in the mix. This is the phasey quality I was referring to. You can tell it's (too) loud, but you still can't hear very well.
Elevating the cab will lean out the low and sent all of the mids and highs straight to your ears. If you like a big pillowy sound, you are sort of stuck, and will need to put your cab on the floor and run it at a low enough level to get the audio tech off your back. This probably means the bass will be way lower in the on-stage mix than you want.
I think using a wedge monitor in a small venue could lead to poor sound. We use wedge monitors as well in our band, but if it's a small venue we usually use only one. You could buy a Behringer P2 Wired IEM system to use with your band. I have one and it works great!
Well, MF still advertises it and when the SALE comes around you can get it for appx $499, maybe less! It has great specs (handles 400 watts RMS) and it really sounds great! And, it's light @29 lbs.
How about just bringing a small IEM setup for yourself if you prefer it? It would require few bits and pieces to work: a mixer and a mic splitter and/or own DIs and mics for the band (vocals, guitar, drums). That way you could create your own mix on the mixer, without interferring with FOH.