What’s in an inch?

S

Sean150

Jul 18, 2018
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#1
TL;DR - I am not asking whether Multiscale is worth it because that is subjective, but, since I don’t have the opportunity to test the basses myself, I am wondering the extent of the difference an inch makes on the feel of the B string.

—

So, after committing to trading in my SR Special 5 and saying that I am never getting another 5 string GAS has struck again and I really want a low B again.

The two main issues I had with the SR is that the B string seemed too floppy, which resulted in having the action so high that it was pretty much unusable above the third fret, and the narrower string spacing.

Addressing the string spacing issue is pretty easy since the SR is notably narrower; but the floppy B string has me conflicted. My logical mind is telling me that a multi scale would be the way to address this and I have been looking and the Ibanez EHB1505MS for awhile which has a 35 inch B string and I am intrigued by the multi scale concept as a whole. The other part of me, however, is a huge Yamaha fan and I know for the same money as the Ibanez I can get a 5 string with the same specs as my #1 BBP34; but it only has a 34 inch scale.

I know that Spector and Dingwall make even longer scale MS basses but I am no sure I want to deviate that much from the 34” that I am used to for something that likely will not be my main player.

So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
 
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#2
I have owned a lot of basses with a B string and have a definite preference for 35" scale. I presently own G.Gould, Modulus, Roscoe and Peavey basses (some are 5 and some 6 string) and also have a 35" scale 4 string Cirrus. The clarity of all the strings is enhanced by the 35" scale and I love the feel of the additional tension on the strings.

I have owned some 34" scale basses that had good B strings but they were Zon and Ken Smith basses. I moved to 35" scale when I got my first Roscoe bass.

I have fairly small hands but I also play upright bass most of the time so I may not be typical in that the 35" scale feels very comfortable to me as long as the string spacing is not too wide. I did have one 35" scale 5 with 19mm spacing at the bridge and that bass felt slow to play compared to the more narrow spaced basses I now own. Of course....YMMV.

Chuck
 
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#3
FWIW, I liked 35” while I had it but I have played a number of 34” five-strings, own two, and even own a 32” five-string. One of my 34” feels a bit floppy, but the other feels great, as does the 32”; all have similar strings on them. My limited experience suggests to me that there may be more to a solid fifth string than scale length. String type and gauge, for sure.
 
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#5
Sean150 said:
does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...
Yes, as in it is not insignificant.

If the gauge remains the same:
Tension is proportional to scale squared, so tension is multiplied by (35 / 34) ^ 2 = 1.06.
A 6% increase, or put another way, an increase of one seventeenth.

Although that might not be enough of an increase for you, and might not be particularly conciously noticeable.
Sean150 said:
The two main issues I had with the SR is that the B string seemed too floppy,
Click to expand...
The tension of the B also depends on its gauge. It is not the case that 'an Ibanez SR will always have a floppy B' as you imply.
I am wondering why you seem to have not thought about inceasing the gauge?
You do not need to increase scale length if you do not want to, if your B is floppy you can increase its gauge to increase its tension until you are happy.

But, a longer scale will result in a better tone for B by creating a more flexible string by making it longer and possibly also thinner.
 
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#8
Short answer, yes. And a 37" B is an even more wonderful thing.

IMGP3401a.JPG


Brice Defiant 53437 EB Blue Quilt
 
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#9
Sean150 said:
TL;DR - I am not asking whether Multiscale is worth it because that is subjective, but, since I don’t have the opportunity to test the basses myself, I am wondering the extent of the difference an inch makes on the feel of the B string.

—

So, after committing to trading in my SR Special 5 and saying that I am never getting another 5 string GAS has struck again and I really want a low B again.

The two main issues I had with the SR is that the B string seemed too floppy, which resulted in having the action so high that it was pretty much unusable above the third fret, and the narrower string spacing.

Addressing the string spacing issue is pretty easy since the SR is notably narrower; but the floppy B string has me conflicted. My logical mind is telling me that a multi scale would be the way to address this and I have been looking and the Ibanez EHB1505MS for awhile which has a 35 inch B string and I am intrigued by the multi scale concept as a whole. The other part of me, however, is a huge Yamaha fan and I know for the same money as the Ibanez I can get a 5 string with the same specs as my #1 BBP34; but it only has a 34 inch scale.

I know that Spector and Dingwall make even longer scale MS basses but I am no sure I want to deviate that much from the 34” that I am used to for something that likely will not be my main player.

So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...
Changes the tension and the harmonic of the string.
This is said by someone with a 35" scale Ibby BTB.
 
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#10
Sean150 said:
So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...

There will be a measurable difference in tension. But this really is neither a necessary, nor a sufficient factor in constructing an instrument with a decently sounding B.
 
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#11
Sean150 said:
TL;DR - I am not asking whether Multiscale is worth it because that is subjective, but, since I don’t have the opportunity to test the basses myself, I am wondering the extent of the difference an inch makes on the feel of the B string.

—

So, after committing to trading in my SR Special 5 and saying that I am never getting another 5 string GAS has struck again and I really want a low B again.

The two main issues I had with the SR is that the B string seemed too floppy, which resulted in having the action so high that it was pretty much unusable above the third fret, and the narrower string spacing.

Addressing the string spacing issue is pretty easy since the SR is notably narrower; but the floppy B string has me conflicted. My logical mind is telling me that a multi scale would be the way to address this and I have been looking and the Ibanez EHB1505MS for awhile which has a 35 inch B string and I am intrigued by the multi scale concept as a whole. The other part of me, however, is a huge Yamaha fan and I know for the same money as the Ibanez I can get a 5 string with the same specs as my #1 BBP34; but it only has a 34 inch scale.

I know that Spector and Dingwall make even longer scale MS basses but I am no sure I want to deviate that much from the 34” that I am used to for something that likely will not be my main player.

So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...
I’ve played a good variety of 5 strings over the years. 34”, 35”, and multiscale. I stuck with 34” scale for a long time mostly playing high end warwicks and mia musicmans which are known for having good low b. Then I started trying new basses. Basically the bigger the difference in scale the more noticeable the difference is. It’s really that simple really. There are a lot of builders doing longer scales these days. Dingwalls longer scale has a 37” low b. Carl Thompson actually does some 38” scale if I remember correctly. They are night and day better than 34” scale imo. But if you want to talk about the 1 inch difference between 34 and 35 I think it really depends on the basses you’re comparing. My experience has been with basses under a grand that yes 35” basses tend to have a noticeably better low b. At the $2000 range most basses tend to have relatively good low Bs no matter what the scale is. But the 37” inch Dingwall low b isn’t just “good” it’s freaking great. And aside from the longer scale for the low b I have become a fan of the string to string balance with multiscale. The g string string being 34” sounds warmer and fatter than the 35” scale basses I’ve had. I’m literally to a point now where I’m planning to string up my other 5ers eadgc because whenever I want a low b my Dingwall is the clear choice
 
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#12
Sean150 said:
So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...

My experiences:
- A 35" is not required to have a good B. I played only 35's for a while because, at the time, I believed this.
- The only really bad B I encountered was on a 34" neckthrough (Washburn), using the same strings that worked fine on my other 5s. All the 35's and other 34's I've owned have been fine.
- I happily play 34" 4 stringers now and have no complaints on the B, even with the light gauge stainless and flatwound strings I use. However: I do not use tapered B-strings, especially with flats.
- I have never played a multiscale and am not likely to go down that road.
 
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#14
Increasing the scale length is one way to increase tension. 6 percent (as indicated above) - not a lot, but it’s something. A 3 percent increase in string diameter accomplishes the same thing.

A drawback of a longer scale length is it means a longer neck. If you keep it’s cross section constant, the longer neck is less stiff. Ever notice that the end of a diving board moves more easily than if you move away from the end? That’s the same principal at work here.

The floppy B “problem” is a math problem - strings should have linear density that’s a geometric progression. Assuming similar construction materials, the diameters will also be a geometric progression. But string sets are usually an arithmetic progression (like 40/60/80/100). The tension of most E strings in sets with this math is lower than the other strings. Take that one step further, and a 120 B string is flop city. A B string that matches that 100 E? That’s a 133. Make it a 135, to fit the usual increments, and it’ll be OK.

The tension problem with B strings is easily solved by proper string design. You don’t need a longer scale to get a decent B string.

I like low tension strings. My E strings are 95’s, my B’s are 130’s. If you like 105 E’s, then .140 is the guage you need in a B string.
 
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#16
Sean150 said:
TL;DR - I am not asking whether Multiscale is worth it because that is subjective, but, since I don’t have the opportunity to test the basses myself, I am wondering the extent of the difference an inch makes on the feel of the B string.

—

So, after committing to trading in my SR Special 5 and saying that I am never getting another 5 string GAS has struck again and I really want a low B again.

The two main issues I had with the SR is that the B string seemed too floppy, which resulted in having the action so high that it was pretty much unusable above the third fret, and the narrower string spacing.

Addressing the string spacing issue is pretty easy since the SR is notably narrower; but the floppy B string has me conflicted. My logical mind is telling me that a multi scale would be the way to address this and I have been looking and the Ibanez EHB1505MS for awhile which has a 35 inch B string and I am intrigued by the multi scale concept as a whole. The other part of me, however, is a huge Yamaha fan and I know for the same money as the Ibanez I can get a 5 string with the same specs as my #1 BBP34; but it only has a 34 inch scale.

I know that Spector and Dingwall make even longer scale MS basses but I am no sure I want to deviate that much from the 34” that I am used to for something that likely will not be my main player.

So my question is to those of you who played a variety of scale lengths, does the inch difference make a significant difference to the tightness of the B string?
Click to expand...
It's not just that inch...it's also the thickness (gauge) of that B string too. This is especially true on short scale 5 strings.
 
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#17
ixlramp said:
Yes, as in it is not insignificant.

If the gauge remains the same:
Tension is proportional to scale squared, so tension is multiplied by (35 / 34) ^ 2 = 1.06.
A 6% increase, or put another way, an increase of one seventeenth.

Although that might not be enough of an increase for you, and might not be particularly conciously noticeable.

The tension of the B also depends on its gauge. It is not the case that 'an Ibanez SR will always have a floppy B' as you imply.
I am wondering why you seem to have not thought about inceasing the gauge?
You do not need to increase scale length if you do not want to, if your B is floppy you can increase its gauge to increase its tension until you are happy.

But, a longer scale will result in a better tone for B by creating a more flexible string by making it longer and possibly also thinner.
Click to expand...

That sounds like one of those things I would have learned if I had not dropped out of Engineering a decade ago. It does put it into perspective so thanks for that. It does bode the question though what is 6% worth. It’s one of those annoying percentages where it is potentially big enough to be significant, or not.

To clarify my lazy typing the 5 I have is a EBMM Stingray Special 5, not an Ibanez SR 5 (don’t ask me how I didn’t see the possible confusion when I was concurrently on Ibanez’s site).

I played it again for a bit today and the B didn’t seem that sloppy but I was still unhappy with the overall tone, or lack there of, of the fretted notes but there could be a lot of causes for that. But they are brand new strings and seem to sustain well enough.

Definitely things to think about, thanks for your response.
 
#20
I'm seriously considering the Spector Dimension 5 as my first foray into MS bass.
I'm a huge fan of Spector's 35" scale 5ers, and I'm just ridiculously curious about the multi-scale concept.
I will most likely be ordering as soon as I can sell off a few of my current stock..
 
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