What a bassist can accomplish...

4Mal

4Mal

Gold Supporting Member
Jun 2, 2002
15,352
9,273
5,426
70
Columbia River Gorge
#1
Worked a show last night. Pro stage manager and crew. Killer Nexo line array setup, albeit minus one rack of amps that went into protect. The other rack was healthy though and was overkill by itself. Double 18's that can drop small buildings. I got to play eyes for the engineer working an unfamiliar and rather complex console... The guy who was on tap to engineer is down for the count health wise, so my guy got the call. I'm along as backup.

Tough room acoustically but not unconquerable. Just not easy. Stage manager and Engineer are very high level. They tuned and dialed as well as I've heard in there. The event itself is multiple acts, awards presentations, all star jam in 3 short sets at the end, with zero change over time. Active, passive basses and an upright. Mute, change, un-mute, read the hand signals for adjusting monitors... Not easy but doable given the crew. I really can't say enough good about those guys.

We got the drums dialed as a kit, sound checked a dobro and harp duo, got 2 song snippets from the opener. Checked the backline. Blues event, lot's of tweed ... Bass rig was an 800 RB on an XLT 4-10, Radial DI on top of the GK. Everybody in the opener called for more bass in their monitors during the snippets. 5 mixes...

Break, breath, replenish the water. Relax. Watch the room fill to around 500...

Opener comes back and the bass guy drops the hammer. Engineer has his fader off in the mains 4 bars into the first song. The bass guy has dialed in the worst mud... God awful tone. Monster 100 hz bump. ICK! Every player on stage is giving me the signal... Turn that crap off... We do. They do their set. They are a great band and if you can ignore the 100hz mess, really a great act. We get a ton of compliments - I think mostly because Engineer had a drum sound and got the vocals over the top. Back at the board, Engineer and I are like ... Gack! (See Bill the Cat). All that work and this...

Apparently the other 4 bass players were in the room and heard it and figurered it out as they all played within the context and their acts had the nice foundational rhythm section that the genre demands. Nicely separated kick and bass. Low end of the keys was clear. Overall a very musical mix. Mr Engineer has chops...

One guy away from a great night. So for all the complaints about sound guys and subs - I'm hear to tell ya that it isn't the only factor in the equation...

Now excuse me whilst I peruse the goofy icon section looking for a fire suit...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Oldschool94, dave64o, Munjibunga and 6 others
#2

To quote the venerable Mr. T – don’cha love it when a plan comes together? :)


So for all the complaints about sound guys and subs - I'm hear to tell ya that it isn't the only factor in the equation...
Click to expand...
Yup. As a sound guy who’s also a bass player, I know how to get a good bass sound. Scking off all the low end of everything on the stage except kick and bass is a good start. I prefer getting signal from a direct box, not from their amplifier’s direct output (unless maybe it has a “bypass” switch to take out all the tone controls. To me, if I can hear every note distinctly up and down the neck, I’m a happy camper. Despite that, I’ve done a good number of those “several bands on the stage tonight” gigs where I couldn’t get anything but mud out of the bass. Next act up on stage, the bass is nice and precise. Next act, something in between.

Believe it or not, there’s been many times when the “best bass” of the night – again, where every note was clear and distinct – came from guys playing cheap Fender Squier basses! There’d be guys playing that night with nice basses costing in the $1-2k range that I couldn’t get anything decent out of. Then this kid comes up with a Squier and it just sounds awesome. I once told one of them, “Great job tonight dude, bass sounded awesome! I hope you didn’t make any mistakes up there, because if you did I assure you everyone heard it!”

So yeah – like you noted, what the player sends the house can make or break what you can do with it. Unfortunately I never talked to the “muddy” guys with those nice basses to try to figure out what the problem was. Maybe a simple change to their tone controls could have made the difference.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses


 
  • Like
Reactions: Oldschool94
#4
WayneP said:

Believe it or not, there’s been many times when the “best bass” of the night – again, where every note was clear and distinct – came from guys playing cheap Fender Squier basses! There’d be guys playing that night with nice basses costing in the $1-2k range that I couldn’t get anything decent out of. Then this kid comes up with a Squier and it just sounds awesome. I once told one of them, “Great job tonight dude, bass sounded awesome! I hope you didn’t make any mistakes up there, because if you did I assure you everyone heard it!"
Click to expand...

This on the award for bass player of the year... And yes that's a Squire. I figure he expected a bit of a free for all given the All Star Jam thing... That man is funkier than 3 day worn socks...
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    331 KB · Views: 142
Last edited:
#5
WayneP said:
To quote the venerable Mr. T – don’cha love it when a plan comes together? :)
Click to expand...
that was hannibal, not mr T! get your cheeseball '80s TV references right, dang it!
WayneP said:
Believe it or not, there’s been many times when the “best bass” of the night – again, where every note was clear and distinct – came from guys playing cheap Fender Squier basses! There’d be guys playing that night with nice basses costing in the $1-2k range that I couldn’t get anything decent out of. Then this kid comes up with a Squier and it just sounds awesome.
Click to expand...
i'm guessing this was mostly the difference between fancy active basses eq'ed every which way vs passive fender-types, where the soundguy struggled to undo the damage from poorly-used onboard eq while the fender-types just naturally sounded "right" in the mix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jonathanhughes
#7
Active bass with onboard para mids , head with plenty of eq options, and the pedals, I have nothing against any of that stuff, but it does leave plenty of room for disaster, in a situation with multiple bands, and a limited sound check, bring a P bass to that gig, turn both knobs to 10, and give the sound guys something they can work with.
 
#8
my theory is that the classic fenders were designed in a time ('57 for the P, '60 for the J) when bass amps just plain sucked, with no power or headroom and no real low end. (they were still mostly open-back for chrissakes)

those basses were made to sound as clear and balanced as possible through inadequate amplification, with the result that even through later, better amps, the fenders just naturally sound right in the mix.
 
#11
Growlmonkee said:
Active bass with onboard para mids , head with plenty of eq options, and the pedals, I have nothing against any of that stuff, but it does leave plenty of room for disaster, in a situation with multiple bands, and a limited sound check, bring a P bass to that gig, turn both knobs to 10, and give the sound guys something they can work with.
Click to expand...

Better yet, get rid of those silly tone and volume controls - you don't need them. (I bypassed faulty pots on a P-bass and never got round to fixing it properly, haven't missed them).
 
#13
I was fortunate that we had an excellent sound engineer in my younger days of traveling and he taught me well about my stage levels, EQ settings for different rooms, stages etc. Every once in a while I'll get a fellow bass player at one of our gigs who comes up and listens to the stage rig and makes a comment about the lack of low end or just volume in general coming from the cab.....I don't bother trying to explain anymore and just move the conversation along. Then I get the people that listen to the music as a whole and tell me how clear but deep the bass sounded through the PA and how they could hear everything I was playing.........mission accomplished.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fokof
#14
My day job is Technical director/Soundman in a downtown venue here.

Small theater = 500-600 seater , killer L'Acoustic kit all over , tough room but not impossible.

Like all smaller rooms around the world , as soon as the stage level is high , my job becomes more "damage management" than "mixing". Also being a bass player , I know my low end.

95% of the time , in my room , I have to low shelf the bass 'till around 300hz and cut the hell out of the usual frequencies for the acoustics of the place. I have no choice but place all the mix around the level of the bass monitoring on stage.
That's sad.

The only time I have a satisfactory bass sound and overall mix is when they are all IEM or acoustic/Jazz/softer stuff.

As soon as I see an 8/10 coming in , I know it's gonna be a tough night (as bass "tone" for the public is concerned) , maybe that's why I hate those with such a passion
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back