what is the heel width on american original bass necks (particularly tele 51 bass neck)

[bon viesta]

i cannot for the life of me find a definitive answer to this question, and it’s information i need in my head for a project i’m thinking through and am probably going to realize in the near future. a ‘51 p bass body i’m looking at states it will take “american original” bass necks without much issue, but i don’t know what the heel width of those necks are. they’re likely either 2 1/2 inches wide or 2 7/16 inches wide. and as to why i don’t just simply by an american original neck, i want a neck that is unfinished. i have options with square heels for each of those dimensions, but of course i don’t know which one would fit. help would be appreciated!!!

 

[bon viesta]

whoops!!!!! i meant american ORIGINAL in the title. not standard.

 

[bon viesta]

bump. anyone out there? there...? there.....? there.......? this may be just a slightly unpopular topic.

 

[Beej]

Here's some irony. Your finish thread is better off in the LC due to the topic and that there are more builders here to chime in.

But this question is probably better asked in Basses, as not a lot of builders concentrate on building other people's designs, like Fenders for example. Plus the LC moves very slowly as a forum in comparison to the big one: Basses, in which the entire front page of threads can turn over in under an hour. In the LC, the front page turns over about every two days.

You'll probably get an answer from some fender enthusiast here, but it might take a couple of days. In Basses, you may get an answer in a few minutes!

Relatedly, google says the 51-57 reissue is 2 7/16. No idea on american originals...

 

[bon viesta]

Here's some irony. Your finish thread is better off in the LC due to the topic and that there are more builders here to chime in.

But this question is probably better asked in Basses, as not a lot of builders concentrate on building other people's designs, like Fenders for example. Plus the LC moves very slowly as a forum in comparison to the big one: Basses, in which the entire front page of threads can turn over in under an hour. In the LC, the front page turns over about every two days.

You'll probably get an answer from some fender enthusiast here, but it might take a couple of days. In Basses, you may get an answer in a few minutes!

Relatedly, google says the 51-57 reissue is 2 7/16. No idea on american originals...

this is the luthiers corner!!!! man!!!!

but on a real note, i sent an email to the guitar mill guys (who say that they take necks based on american originals/vintage spec things) and they got back to me saying that their 51 p bass bodies will fit a 2 1/2 inch neck. let’s hope the person manning the emails knows what they’re talking about...

 

[bon viesta]

but thanks for being the lone dude who decided to reply to this lonely little thread.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Part of the confusion here is the geometry. Almost all Fender 4-string bass necks are designed and specified as 2 1/2" wide at the heel. That's the nominal dimension. But remember that the neck tapers in width down its length. The neck measures 2 1/2" wide only at the very back end of the heel. If it had sharp corners. But then when you sand or cut the small radiuses on the back corners, that reduces the width at the widest part by a small amount. So the neck was cut to 2 1/2" wide specification, but when it's all trimmed and finished, it will measure something like 2 7/16" across the radiused corners. But it's still considered to be a 2 1/2" wide neck heel.

And also, whether the heel is cut square end or curved end will affect the actual measurement across the widest part. Even though it's still considered to be a 2 1/2" wide neck heel.

I hope that reduces your confusion.

 

[bon viesta]

Part of the confusion here is the geometry. Almost all Fender 4-string bass necks are designed and specified as 2 1/2" wide at the heel. That's the nominal dimension. But remember that the neck tapers in width down its length. The neck measures 2 1/2" wide only at the very back end of the heel. If it had sharp corners. But then when you sand or cut the small radiuses on the back corners, that reduces the width at the widest part by a small amount. So the neck was cut to 2 1/2" wide specification, but when it's all trimmed and finished, it will measure something like 2 7/16" across the radiused corners. But it's still considered to be a 2 1/2" wide neck heel.

And also, whether the heel is cut square end or curved end will affect the actual measurement across the widest part. Even though it's still considered to be a 2 1/2" wide neck heel.

I hope that reduces your confusion.

so are allparts necks really a 2 7/16 inch heel???

 

[bon viesta]

also to be clear the neck in question will be squared, not rounded. the guitar mill people say that the body should take a 2 1/2 inch heel, but all the heels everywhere for 51 basses (with listed measurements... fender doesn’t state their heel width) are 2 7/16 inch heels. this is a confusing matter

 

[bon viesta]

and i DID find a square heel tele bass neck, all to my specific specs, 2 1/2 inch heel, but it’s only confusing because why are all of these other brands this different measurement?? i’m going to go with the 2 1/2 inch heel unless otherwise proved wrong, or perhaps when this project sets sail i’ll make sure to get the body first and i can measure it after it gets here.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

also to be clear the neck in question will be squared, not rounded. the guitar mill people say that the body should take a 2 1/2 inch heel, but all the heels everywhere for 51 basses (with listed measurements... fender doesn’t state their heel width) are 2 7/16 inch heels. this is a confusing matter

Like I explained above, the Guitar Mill people are stating that their bodies are cut for a 2 1/2" heel, which is the nominal specified standard Fender 4-string heel width. But when people measure finished Fender spec necks across the little radiused corners, they measure 2 7/16".

A neck that measures 2 7/16" across the radiused corners is a 2 1/2" nominal spec neck heel.

 

[BobKos]

Buy everything from one place and it will likely work together very well. Not the answer you are looking for but it is the answer you need. Say you buy two parts from two makers and they fit together horribly or maybe not at all. You contact both and they each tell you there is a build tolerance of +- .010 on the heel dimension and the parts meet that specification. What do you do then? Now you're stuck with a loose fitting neck or shaving parts down to make them fit.

 

[bon viesta]

Buy everything from one place and it will likely work together very well. Not the answer you are looking for but it is the answer you need. Say you buy two parts from two makers and they fit together horribly or maybe not at all. You contact both and they each tell you there is a build tolerance of +- .010 on the heel dimension and the parts meet that specification. What do you do then? Now you're stuck with a loose fitting neck or shaving parts down to make them fit.

thanks for the advice!! my current plan right now is to play it safe and purchase the body first when i put this into motion. i’ll wait for it to arrive, and i’ll measure the pocket depth precisely. or, i could add a note in “additional notes” section of the custom body order form thing and state “make sure neck pocket is able to hold an allparts replacement neck” or something like that.

 

[bon viesta]

also, as i understand mario guitars (guitar mill) is a very very high quality and reliable service. i don’t think they would make a bass body that isn’t compatible with most reasonable bass necks made specifically for squared pockets, IE allparts necks.

 

[bon viesta]

but if anyone has ever used guitar mill for a bass project please please please tell me about your experience with getting a neck that fits!!!!

 

[BobKos]

thanks for the advice!! my current plan right now is to play it safe and purchase the body first when i put this into motion. i’ll wait for it to arrive, and i’ll measure the pocket depth precisely. or, i could add a note in “additional notes” section of the custom body order form thing and state “make sure neck pocket is able to hold an allparts replacement neck” or something like that.

You can't expect a company to manufacture a custom body based on a vague reference to a competitor's product and have it meet your expectation. You don't know what the Allparts spec is and neither do they. And they most likely don't care. They don't sell Allparts necks. They sell their necks and their parts work with their parts or compatibility stated in their design. Or as originally stated an AO Fender OEM neck. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. And you're going about it backwards. I still say if you want the Allparts neck buy an Allparts body too. But if you insist on an Allparts neck then buy it first. Then tell the body maker to match the specifications of the neck you have in hand and can reliably spec for them. Tell them what you want to do and see if they can work WITH you. They will probably tell you thay can't guarantee compatibility with other products and that is a very reasonable position for them to take. In a thread yesterday I posted about an older warmoth neck I have on an older fender body. The neck is about .020 wider than a standard fender neck pocket and the body needed to be cut back to accomodate that neck. Modern Warmoth necks swim in the neck pocket. I have another older warmoth neck and it is better but still has .010 side gap in the pocket which is alot when fitting it. It should be an exact science and things are certainly better than they were 30 years ago. But it's not so it won't be. Buy everything together at one time from one place.

You don't state, but I will speculate that you played an AO Fender and liked it except for a few minor things. I will tell you that necks vary wildly and if you found a neck contour you like you really need to stick with that. I have many Jazz Basses and the necks are all different. My favorites are a warmoth that was custom profiled by a luthier in New York and an FGN on an old Neo-Classic. My USA Custom Guitars is also outstanding and has a 7.25" radius that is a treat to play. My Allparts is VERY chunky by comparison. The Allparts is a great neck too, but it is different - as is the Mayones, Fender CS, Warmoth Standard Taper, Peavey, etc etc. My final advice to you is that if you REALLY liked the AO neck, seek one of those out, strip it or have the back side de-glossed (easy to do) and buy the body you are looking at that is guaranteed to fit that neck properly. At the end of the day you will be MUCH happier with it. I have a Fender built from a used Fender body and a new Fender replacement neck. It is a great bass.

Good luck with your adventure.

 

[bon viesta]

You can't expect a company to manufacture a custom body based on a vague reference to a competitor's product and have it meet your expectation. You don't know what the Allparts spec is and neither do they. And they most likely don't care. They don't sell Allparts necks. They sell their necks and their parts work with their parts or compatibility stated in their design. Or as originally stated an AO Fender OEM neck. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. And you're going about it backwards. I still say if you want the Allparts neck buy an Allparts body too. But if you insist on an Allparts neck then buy it first. Then tell the body maker to match the specifications of the neck you have in hand and can reliably spec for them. Tell them what you want to do and see if they can work WITH you. They will probably tell you thay can't guarantee compatibility with other products and that is a very reasonable position for them to take. In a thread yesterday I posted about an older warmoth neck I have on an older fender body. The neck is about .020 wider than a standard fender neck pocket and the body needed to be cut back to accomodate that neck. Modern Warmoth necks swim in the neck pocket. I have another older warmoth neck and it is better but still has .010 side gap in the pocket which is alot when fitting it. It should be an exact science and things are certainly better than they were 30 years ago. But it's not so it won't be. Buy everything together at one time from one place.

You don't state, but I will speculate that you played an AO Fender and liked it except for a few minor things. I will tell you that necks vary wildly and if you found a neck contour you like you really need to stick with that. I have many Jazz Basses and the necks are all different. My favorites are a warmoth that was custom profiled by a luthier in New York and an FGN on an old Neo-Classic. My USA Custom Guitars is also outstanding and has a 7.25" radius that is a treat to play. My Allparts is VERY chunky by comparison. The Allparts is a great neck too, but it is different - as is the Mayones, Fender CS, Warmoth Standard Taper, Peavey, etc etc. My final advice to you is that if you REALLY liked the AO neck, seek one of those out, strip it or have the back side de-glossed (easy to do) and buy the body you are looking at that is guaranteed to fit that neck properly. At the end of the day you will be MUCH happier with it. I have a Fender built from a used Fender body and a new Fender replacement neck. It is a great bass.

Good luck with your adventure.

thank you for your patience! it’s tricky to deal with someone like me. i think you’re right about buying a neck first. i thought about that for a moment too, but you’ve convinced me it’s the right way to go about all of this. i’m going to set up some emailing to the bass body people to just ask if they would be able to spec a neck pocket to specific measurements if i had them available to me, or in other words see if buying a neck first would be of any use to getting an ensured good fit. but anyhow, no matter how much of a fool i make myself out to be with any of this, in the end it doesn’t matter because getting information is very important, by whatever means. luckily i have this forum at my disposal. and just to be clear and show that i’m not as ignorantly ambitious as i may seem, i totally would buy an allparts body or guitar mill neck but allparts doesn’t have a tele bass body anymore, and guitar mill doesn’t sell a tele bass neck.

 

[bon viesta]

You can't expect a company to manufacture a custom body based on a vague reference to a competitor's product and have it meet your expectation. You don't know what the Allparts spec is and neither do they. And they most likely don't care. They don't sell Allparts necks. They sell their necks and their parts work with their parts or compatibility stated in their design. Or as originally stated an AO Fender OEM neck. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. And you're going about it backwards. I still say if you want the Allparts neck buy an Allparts body too. But if you insist on an Allparts neck then buy it first. Then tell the body maker to match the specifications of the neck you have in hand and can reliably spec for them. Tell them what you want to do and see if they can work WITH you. They will probably tell you thay can't guarantee compatibility with other products and that is a very reasonable position for them to take. In a thread yesterday I posted about an older warmoth neck I have on an older fender body. The neck is about .020 wider than a standard fender neck pocket and the body needed to be cut back to accomodate that neck. Modern Warmoth necks swim in the neck pocket. I have another older warmoth neck and it is better but still has .010 side gap in the pocket which is alot when fitting it. It should be an exact science and things are certainly better than they were 30 years ago. But it's not so it won't be. Buy everything together at one time from one place.

You don't state, but I will speculate that you played an AO Fender and liked it except for a few minor things. I will tell you that necks vary wildly and if you found a neck contour you like you really need to stick with that. I have many Jazz Basses and the necks are all different. My favorites are a warmoth that was custom profiled by a luthier in New York and an FGN on an old Neo-Classic. My USA Custom Guitars is also outstanding and has a 7.25" radius that is a treat to play. My Allparts is VERY chunky by comparison. The Allparts is a great neck too, but it is different - as is the Mayones, Fender CS, Warmoth Standard Taper, Peavey, etc etc. My final advice to you is that if you REALLY liked the AO neck, seek one of those out, strip it or have the back side de-glossed (easy to do) and buy the body you are looking at that is guaranteed to fit that neck properly. At the end of the day you will be MUCH happier with it. I have a Fender built from a used Fender body and a new Fender replacement neck. It is a great bass.

Good luck with your adventure.

also, just re-reading this, i keep things sorta vague in this post but just want to set a little bit of the record straight, i specify american original, because like i said that is the neck they say they take. but since i wanted an unfinished one, i was hoping to see if anyone knew what those specific neck’s heel size was in general. i’m not really trying to do anything custom here, just a basic 51 p bass type thing, which is why i’m trying to give all of the nitty gritty specification things the benefit of the doubt. “a fender spec tele bass body?? well a licensed by fender tele bass replacement neck should work.” that’s pretty much my thought process. but being the over-thinker i am, i decided to spiral into a world of research about this and here i am, likely over complicating things. but maybe that’s okay. allparts necks, when specifically labeled with things like mm and such, seem to have an average of around 2.49 inches or so. i think allparts will be a safe bet. but like you suggested, i WILL likely be buying the neck first. thank you for your outlook, it’s very very appreciated.

 

[BobKos]

I just went up to Warmoth's site and they sell everything you want at reasonable prices. NOT sub $300 for everything prices but reasonable for the quality you will receive. And I promise it will all fit together quite nicely.

 

[deff]

also, just re-reading this, i keep things sorta vague in this post but just want to set a little bit of the record straight, i specify american original, because like i said that is the neck they say they take. but since i wanted an unfinished one, i was hoping to see if anyone knew what those specific neck’s heel size was in general. i’m not really trying to do anything custom here, just a basic 51 p bass type thing, which is why i’m trying to give all of the nitty gritty specification things the benefit of the doubt. “a fender spec tele bass body?? well a licensed by fender tele bass replacement neck should work.” that’s pretty much my thought process. but being the over-thinker i am, i decided to spiral into a world of research about this and here i am, likely over complicating things. but maybe that’s okay. allparts necks, when specifically labeled with things like mm and such, seem to have an average of around 2.49 inches or so. i think allparts will be a safe bet. but like you suggested, i WILL likely be buying the neck first. thank you for your outlook, it’s very very appreciated.

You have an amazing belief in batch to batch consistency for manufacturers that their reported specifications with tolerances of 2 and 7/16, 2.49" and 2.5" mean exactly what they say they mean. As others have said here, buying a body and neck from the same source at least insures that it is likely to fit to one another. Anything other than that is probably roughly within normal manufacturing tolerances.