What is your tolerance / standards for tuning machine functionality? ?

[Bermuda Ron]

Hey All, I note that many of you when first acquiring an "entry level" instrument
, many immediately remark that "the tuners are crap" or that "of course I'll be changing out the tuners". Other than wanting to change out for lighter weight or different color / style, what is your tolerance or standard for tuning machine functionality? Do you expect them to hold tune for one song, one set, one gig, one overnight, one week? Just what is YOUR metric?
Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Samatza]

In my opinion they should at the very least be able to hold tuning over a gig. I know with air conditioning tuning may shift slightly but having to regularly tune between songs is painful.

 

[shraderbass]

Same. Most reputable tuners hold very well. Temperature and humidity can change the best tuned instrument ever so slightly

 

[96tbird]

Even the cheapest tuners I have used held tune just fine. It’s the fit and finish and quality of materials that matters. Cast metal post tuners are a joke and a bad one at that, yet Warwick and Ibanez puts them on $1500 basses and this forum has many tales of woe about them.

For open gear tuners it’s quite easy to see whether the gears are cut cleanly and have good plating or if they are MIC junk.

 

[JRA]

what is your tolerance or standard for tuning machine functionality? Do you expect them to hold tune for one song, one set, one gig, one overnight, one week?

tuning machines can work just fine, but the wood neck/fingerboard and strings can react to the atmosphere to cause the need for re-tuning. just because your ax needs tuning = doesn't necessarily mean the machines are at fault. per your question: on most gigs = i tune once + check the tuning before each set. temperature/humidity changes, stoutness of neck, and other factors/variables come into play.

 

[Bermuda Ron]

Okay, holding for a gig seems to be a pretty strict tolerence, considering the number of posts on TB regarding pedalboard tuners, Snarks, D'Addario minis, etc.?

 

[JKos]

A tuning machine itself should never be the reason a bass goes out of tune. No excuse for that.

 

[Zooberwerx]

A tuning machine itself should never be the reason a bass goes out of tune. No excuse for that.

Most of the "crap tuner' woes I encounter can be traced to other deficits in the string path, including:

*Improper string install: inadequate wraps, no witness points, twisted strings.

*Poorly cut nut: binds the string(s), slots not lubed, etc.

*Operator error: tune up not down, machine heads not maintained (missing washers / spacers).

All machine heads have varying levels of lash (play) but this becomes a non-issue when subjected to 30-35 lbs of string tension.

Riis

 

[Jefenator]

It’s not necessarily about the ratio. IME cheap tuners just feel rougher to operate - like there’s more slop and resistance in the gears.
I’ll usually just live with it on a budget instrument - unless one starts to seize or skip. Then I’ll source a used set of Gotoh/Schaller/Hipshot/Grover gears and enjoy having a $500 bass that tunes as smoothly and reliably as a $2000 bass.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Most of the "crap tuner' woes I encounter can be traced to other deficits in the string path, including:

*Improper string install: inadequate wraps, no witness points, twisted strings.

*Poorly cut nut: binds the string(s), slots not lubed, etc.

*Operator error: tune up not down, machine heads not maintained (missing washers / spacers).

All machine heads have varying levels of lash (play) but this becomes a non-issue when subjected to 30-35 lbs of string tension.

Riis

Agreed. Tuners hold tune by virtue of the high gear ratio (from the perspective of the string trying to rotate the gear), so it's rare that the tuner itself is the cause of problems. I've had no problems with the cheap stock tuners on Squiers, other than that my preference is for straight or straight tapered posts for better break angle over the nut, rather than posts that are shaped )(

 

[NoiseNinja]

Don't actually mind they if they might not be the best and a bit difficult to tune right as long as it is actually possible to tune precisely with them and they don't automatically move causing tuning instabilities.